Car Collection Terminology and Standards

[26th-Z]

I got into it on another site about terminology concerning the description of cars and thought of a thread in which we discussed judging rules and classification of cars at shows. I can't find the thread, but we mentioned the "Official Z.C.C.A. Z-Car Judging Manual" and the "240Z Restoration Program Quality Control Checklist". The judging rules of the Antique Automobile Club of America would apply http://www.aaca.org/

The 86 page document is available in PDF format for printing or you can buy it for $3

I have seen the term "all original" used quite liberally and misleadingly. What I got off on was the notion of "professional restoration"; another misunderstood concept I see thrown around at will.

I encourage everyone to take a look at AACA with respect to what they say about restoration techniques, materials, and part replacements. AACA has over 60,000 members and is pretty much the accepted standard in the car collecting community.

Have a look and tell me what you think!

[sblake01]

I think the the buyer on the site you mention (I have also been following this) got what he deserved. He didn't ask enough (if any) questions about the car before purchasing it. I can't knock the seller (I won't name names). If you are making such a deal, it's up to you, the buyer, to investigate the claims of the seller. If that buyer takes the legal action that many have suggested, what would he gain? I won't make that car the one he wanted it to be and the cost of pursuing that course of action would never be recovered. Live and learn.

[Zrush]

We have taken the FR 1972 240Z to a few AACA shows around Florida and have won in our class. However, some of these shows can be quite snobby which is really not my style. These shows have the cream of the crop when it comes to fine automobiles. Here in Florida the AACA in my area really appreciates the Z car since they agree that most have been sacrificed to the rust god.

[Bambikiller240]

Originally posted by sblake01

I think the the buyer on the site you mention (I have also been following this) got what he deserved. He didn't ask enough (if any) questions about the car before purchasing it. I can't knock the seller (I won't name names).

If you are refrring to the "All Original" 240Z that arrived with an L28 and 5 speed trans...............I disagree. "ALL Original" has only one meaning, PERIOD. The "restorer" who sold it DID materially misrepresent the car, and considering the knowledge he must have to restore these cars, he HAD to know what he as doing. He has lost at least this customer due to his unwillingness to stand behind the product he sold through a fraudulent auction.

[Zrush]

Originally posted by Bambikiller240

If you are refrring to the "All Original" 240Z that arrived with an L28 and 5 speed trans...............I disagree. "ALL Original" has only one meaning, PERIOD. The "restorer" who sold it DID materially misrepresent the car, and considering the knowledge he must have to restore these cars, he HAD to know what he as doing. He has lost at least this customer due to his unwillingness to stand behind the product he sold through a fraudulent auction.

Where can I find this info you guys are talking about on this "Original 240Z" with an L28?:stupid:

[Bambikiller240]

Originally posted by zrush

Where can I find this info you guys are talking about on this "Original 240Z" with an L28?:stupid:

The deal I was referring to was posted on the 240z.org mailing list for the past few days. It involves a member who bought a car off eBay from a well known SO Cal restorer/former advertiser here who listed a 240Z as being "All Original" and claimed to only be selling it because he didn't have time to restore it, or something like that. When it was received by the buyer it had an L28 and 5 Speed transmission in it, among other relatively minor discrepancies compared to the description written into the auction page. Seller refuses to accomodate the buyer with a discount from the sale price or to consider any other form of compensation for the descrepancy.

I've deleted the mail list for the past few days from my computer, but maybe someone else has a copy they can forward to you.

[Gav240z]

I put the whole thing together piece by piece i hope it's not against site policy.

I haven't read it through yet.

240z280block.txt

[26th-Z]

I didn't want to get into bashing the ebay deal because I think it's beyond our business, this isn't a courtroom, but I really took exception to some of the terminology used to describe what should have been and what wasn't represented and who said what etc.

Essentially, a car was sold on eBay advertised as "all original" and the buyer was wondering how a "professional restorer" could advertise that way. I felt it necessary to rant and rave about what constitutes professional restoration services and the controversy went on from there.

AACA discusses acceptable alterations between pages 76 and 83. Similar issues are discussed in the Z.C.C.A. manual. Do you guys think this is all pretty cut and dried clear? Or, do you have comments about some of the things that may be unavoidable due to NLA parts and new techniques. Any experienced judges wish to comment on what they see at shows?

[TomoHawk]

I think this is a good place to DISCUSS what happened, or why, and the repercussions of it. Like 26th said, it's not a courtroom, so no judgements should be made. You can make your own judgements.

I think it's a good idea to discuss what went on objectively, so maybe certain people will read/hear of it, and learn. Others will read/hear of it and possibly change something to make an improvement in the system to enefit all. Maybe even prevent the samething from happening again.

[hls30.com]

I have to agree with TomoHawk! Sharing info about cars-all aspects of cars-is what a car club is about. How many of you inherited your cars? Then, you traded for them(be it with cash, a set of speakers, what ever...) As a first time car buyer, wouldn't you have liked to have known more about all parts of the transaction? Some members of this club haven't been there yet, this is good info for them, which means it helps the hobby!

All original is as shipped from the factory, with all major pieces being original or factory specified replacements, and all numbered pieces matching. Last time I checked, the engine and transmission were major pieces that have numbers.

Wow, another person who does not know what "is" means...I guess the fluid stains are on the floorboards...

I use the dictionary for the definition for terms.

I wouldn't want this well known restorer any where near my car-evidently, he doesn't even know what the car came from the factory with-more to the point, he does not care.

[Bambikiller240]

Originally posted by hls30.com

I wouldn't want this well known restorer any where near my car-evidently, he doesn't even know what the car form the factory with came with-more to the point, he does not care.

I don't want him near my wallet either. I vote with my wallet and there are plenty of other places to spend money where honesty is a part of the deal!

[Zrush]

Originally posted by Gav240z

I put the whole thing together piece by piece i hope it's not against site policy.

I haven't read it through yet.

Thanks for posting that link Gav240z.

I see fault on both sides. I would never by a car over the internet without checking it out myself. Big mistake. As far as the seller, IMO he knew exactly what he was selling and if he claims he didn't know about the engine, then he's running a pretty lame business.