Car Collection Terminology and Standards

[Nick H]

Well over her in the UK an "original 240Z" would be deemed to be misdescribed if it had an L28 engine and 5 speed box and the seller, commercial or not, would be taken to court by Trading Standards.

[dspillman]

This is a great site,not sure how I've missed it for so long.

Thanks for the heads up Enrique.

I'm the buyer of the car mentioned in this thread.

Don't worry, I'm finished with repeating my story in what I consider to be my/our little community,publically.

As all repeated stories are passed some details become twisted to a degree.

I'm posting here to let you guys know the tranny is not a 5-speed.

Not sure where that got started....

David Spillman

[halz]

While I was searching for my Z I must have spoken to over a dozen sellers who advertised using the term "original" or "all original" (and many more who didn't). My first three questions to these people always eliminated 99% or the cars advertised. The questions are:

1. Does the car have its original engine and transmission?

2. Is the car still painted in its original factory colour?

3. Does the car have its original interior fittings (seat covers, radio, vinyl trim)?

Most often, the 'original 240z' would turn out to have been repainted in a non-original colour, have an L28 engine fitted and have been retrimmed in a non-original matrial/colour in the cabin.

Someone advertising a car as "all original" really should be able to answer my 3 questions with a yes. However, a buyer should also ask these three questions no matter how the car is advertised...if originality is important to them, that is.

(PS, I eventually compromised on the interior trim...my car has non-orig seat covers and radio...both about to be changed!)

[beandip]

The car first of all was sold as a project car . Yes it was sold by a professional Z restorer . But was advertised as a project. I was in the add that the car was origional I will give you that , it was also said that the car was inspected . Was the inspection asked for by the buyer NO ! Did the buyer ask questions as to the condition of the engine and what trans. was in the car no. Could be an automatic . The buyer is jumping up and down because brake lines have been replaced and the alternater has been changed . Yes there is a L-28 engine in the car. If anyone buys a 30+ old car on Ebay or any where, sight unseen , He is setting him self up for dissapointment . Especially if he thinks he is to get a rust free absolutly origional auto of the age of these cars , for under 10K much less half that. Becaue in his mind the car is one way and when it is first seen it will be different and not as good as it mental picture. I saw the add and read the other posts from the other venue and I still say he got what he paid for. Major case of buyers remorse. Tired of beating this DEAD HORSE. :mad:

[dspillman]

When that "dead" horse jumps up and kicks ,gotta move.

"The buyer is jumping up and down because brake lines have been replaced and the alternater has been changed "

(Nope...false statment...completely.)

I wrongly ______ "fill in the blank" that the only verifiable part would be there.

" Major case of buyers remorse."

(I would have to think long and hard if I was offered at this point all my monies back from anyone)

Very solid "structurally speaking" car that dosen't exist on the right coast....whoops...very rare on right coast.

looking for downforce in my Z,

david spillman

[Zrush]

I've had a couple friends burnt by purchasing a car via the internet.

A guy saw a 1970 "Heavy Chevy" for $12,000.00. Seller sent pictures, beautiful car. When it arrived here in Florida it was rusted from the bottom up AND it was a CLONE!! Duh, the price should have given that away!

One more "buyer beware" pitty story.......

A buddy bought a 1970 LS6 Corvette with all the NCRS certificates and what not. The pictures too were great, a nice primo vette. Come to fine out the car leaked oil like a sive, the crome was all pitted and the paint was history. (The car was still fast , what with that big 'ole 454). The NCRS certificate was from when the car had seen better days...... say 15 years ago!

THE END

:tapemouth

[YogiBearandBooB]

If you can't trust a "professional restorer" to know what "ALL ORIGINAL" means, and advertise what he sells honestly, and accurately.........................he's just a "restorer" and NOT very professional at all. Mr Spillman has my support.

That's how I see it from Jellystone Park!

[beandip]

dispillman , I am sorry that y ou are dissapointed in the car and the deal . This is a given with ANY transaction. However the fact of the matter is , you should have asked the questions and done the checking by at least contacting a Nissan dealer in the area and hiring a mechanic or service person or body and fender man to have a look at the car for you and report back . I have done inspections of this sort in the past for members of this forum and saved then a lot of money in air fair not to mention anguish. When you go to a car DEALER and buy a NEW or USED car , dont you take it out and drive it FIRST before you sign on the dotted line? From what you posted on the other web site , it sounds like a good car and one that would be vary sellable if this is what is next for the Z . Again vary sorry for your distasteful transaction and but cuda , wodda, shoudda . that is not of much comfort . I can see both sides of this coin. Gary

[dspillman]

HI Gary,

No reason for anyone to be sorry for my actions.

As far as test drives are concerned,I've driven 240s since 1983....."long time for me,but not to some original owners".

My Green tan interior 72 was my first car that I owned in my name..but, I know what you mean.

I'm not a confrontational guy,ask anyone. But I won't take any crap,if it matters. I didn't question the written word of a...... ya'll heard it before.

Yep,I'm crazy about the 240z with a passion,both race and street cars. I'm left wishing sometimes that everyones passion was as pure.

wishful thinking forsure.

:surprised

david spillman

[beandip]

David , it is too bad that we had to meet in this manner. I do want to welcome you to the club here. I think that you will find a wealth of information and good people here. And we do vary much treasure out Z cars that is for sure. And again welcome to the group. Gary:classic:

[CoastGuardZ]

Hey Dave,

I love Dead horses, so if you don't mind I'd like like to kick it too.

Hmmm, I took a look at the ebay ad and also took a look at the mail list. I do see your point to an extent. The Z was misrepresented. We all know that all sellers hype up their vehicle, hell it's the basic's of advertising. One wouldn't expect TIR to represent an ad in such a way. I don't know a whole lot else about the deal or the condition of the car, but i do live not too terribly far down the road from you and know that a Z in good shape is hard to find. I have no idea how much it cost you to have it shipped to NC but I saw your winning bid and if you got a pretty rust free car pretty original car minus the engine block you still got an alright deal.

The car I just looked at two days ago... '73 240Z had "Factory Original Aluminum Mags" and "A little rust on the floor board". And I'm like hmmm factory alum. mags in 73? They were the old school slotted mags and you could set a 6 pack on the driveway through the driverside floor pan and I was afraid to sit in the drivers seat I don't think the pan would have held. Couldn't imagine the areas not readily viewable.

just adding my bit,

Nate

[dspillman]

I'm feeling at home here,neck deep in Z talk and info...incredible wealth of information conversation.

david