Dip

[NCLarry]

I'll be stripping down to the unibody and welding in new floors and patches and wondered if it was best to strip off all the existing paint, while removing undercoating and rust.

One thought led to another and I starting looking into places that will dip the who vehicle. Sure enough, for $1000 ($$$$$) a place will dip the whole unit. All the paint, rust, undercoat (everything not metal) will be GONE!!

Ready for patch/prime. Anyone ever done this? I realize, though, afterwards, the original sound deadening in the hatch would be gone and would need replacement if intending to make 'original'. Is that stuff even available?

Anyone ever done the dip?

[Ed]

Before you start welding make sure that the area to be welded is completely clean. Any rust, paint or other impurities will mess up your weld.

On the dipping side, my opinion is if you dip it, then ALL the paint will be gone. Even the paint that is in those hard to reach places, like in the rocker pannels and under the rear wheel wells. Some of these places will be impossible to reach and if there is nothing there but bare metal then most likely it will rust from the inside out. Maybe after they do the acid dip they can dip it in primer?

[26th-Z]

Larry, I can't find the particular site I wanted to recommend as a starter, but just do a "rust removal" search and start reading about the electrolytic rust removal process. You will find that most restorers of investment grade automobiles will prefer this method. It is comprehensive and the only way to completely remove rust from a body shell such as ours.

Sand blasting will pit the metal and won't get inside the chassis. Acids are difficult to remove and stabilize. There are all kinds of encapsulators, including the POR so popularly discussed on this site, but they only encapsulate rust. They do not remove it. I was a big believer in OSPHO, but have changed my tune.

The cost of my dip will be $1200 for the chassis only. Doors, deck lid and fenders are extra. The company I have been dealing with is Poineer Restorations in Wauchula, Florida and their dipping facility is Revivations. Look for a big story and write-up from me in the next few months. This is what I am currently doing to my shell.

[26th-Z]

Greetings!

I thought I would tac on to this thread to share my experiences. As ya'll may know, I am dipping Her Majesty the 26th to remove the rust and prepare her body for restoration.

There is a business in Wauchula, Florida that dips car bodies and parts in an alkaline electrolytic solution to remove rust. An electric DC current is passed through the tank (with submerged car body) and the "ferrous ions" - rust - are separated from the metal - completely. Her Majesty is there awaiting the magic spa and I expect her nude return in March.

Revivations is charging me $1,391 for the body shell - priced at 158 inches long. Here are some pictures of the facility. You will see a 1600 body shell in line ahead of me along with a T-bird, Jag, and some trucks. Trucks seem to be quite popular these days. The car will be placed on a cradle and lowered into a tank full of degreaser and paint stripper for approximatley two weeks. Then it will be pressure washed to remove the seam sealer, insulation, glue and other goo. This process does not harm the lead filler or some of the plastic coatings like around the wiring harness ties. Then the car is submerged in the alkaline solution and de-rusted. It sits in that tank for another week.

Ed, the reason I am doing this is because 26 is rusting from the inside out. There is no coating of any sort in the "hard to reach" areas you are talking about. Looking inside the rockers, fender wells, roof, etc. you will see bare metal - no coating. I have seen some signs of zink plating in some areas of the rockers, but the rest of it is bare steel. Well....rusted steel.

We are going to try a process to coat the inside of these areas using a primer / sealer, but I put this to you - it took 35 years to get this bad. I don't really worry about coating it. Should last another 30 years, easily.

The last picture shows a VW pick-up next to the electrolytic tank. There is a cradle in the tank. I don't know if the VW is going in or coming out. There was also a Pantera and another Jag in this building.

So here we go! Big step for me and the project. Wish me luck!

[Ed]

Chris,

Don't know if your interested but Phred and Escanlon have a technique for shooting POR-15 into the rockers and other hard to reach places.

Ed

[26th-Z]

Thanks - I'll discuss it with them. At the moment, we were thinking of using a garden pump-up sprayer with the long plastic wand to spray primer / sealer inside some areas similar to the "Zeibart" process. I recall Escanlon talking about long spray gun wands some time ago and I hear Eastwood sells something. I don't expect to get it all, but I should be able to get a little better protection than original.

[EScanlon]

...garden pump-up sprayer with the long plastic wand.......

That's what got me thinking about spraying the POR. I found an Air Nozzle Blower that had a brass tube mounted perpendicular to the tube (for a venturi) and a 6' length of clear tubing. With this setup I could shoot the unthinned POR into every nook and cranny I could stick the tip into.

The thought of using a longer wand or nozzle tip was to make sure the POR made it into places that you couldn't shoot with the Air Nozzle into easily. Places such as the cabin side of the rocker metal supports (the ones with the holes at the sides of the floor panels), you can shoot through the rocker support to the EXTERIOR rocker panel metal, but to reverse the "blow" of the paint, you would need something with an angle wand and enough reach to allow you to shoot through and back onto the metal you are reaching through. (kind of like painting the outside of your house from the inside reaching through a window).

I haven't yet tried to use a typical Air Nozzle Sprayer, because of the need to get ALL the POR out of the internal mechanisms. The air blower that I bought was only a few bucks, and other than the clear pick up hose needing to be replaced rather than being cleaned (thinner dissolves the hose), it's been working fine. The Air Nozzle Sprayer also has the clear hose, but it also has several metal parts that would have to be removed and cleaned. At 10+ dollars each, I've stuck to the Air Blower Sprayer.

The "Ziebart" style nozzle / wand set up would be ideal, as long as you could clean them out or didn't mind buying a new one for every use.

Enrique

[CrashNBurn]

If dipping the Zed weren't an option, what process would you be using? Beadblasting?

Would powdercoating be a possible alternative to painting the insides of the rocker panels and other hard-to-reach places? I'm not sure exactly how you would go about "cookin" the powder-coated part, unless you have a garage-sized oven. Is it at all possible to remove the rocker panels to cure them in an oven?

Just some thoughts...

Jason

[Ed]

If dipping the Zed weren't an option, what process would you be using? Beadblasting?

The latest craze is "Soda Blasting" it doesn't generate any heat that would destort large body pannels. It washes out with water and is pretty cheap.

[26th-Z]

I have heard about a baking process that burns everything off and I think someone in the club has done it. The dip process is a real godsend for me. Wauchula is only an hour from here. I think there is a dipping place in Jacksonville, about five hours from here. Dipping is the only way to get 100% rust free inside and out and I really want to be able to say the car is rust free. This process is going to take out all the body sealer and if you look at how the body was welded together (some spot welds are 3" apart) replacing all the seam sealer will pretty much seal up the inside metal, but I still plan to spray some sort of sealer inside what I can reach. I think the garden sprayer is the way to go. The wand will bend and the spray can be adjusted. Just throw it out when you are finished. Let all the primer / sealer just drip out of the seams and make a big mess. I'll have about three weeks to seal the car up before the metal starts to surface rust. The "alkaline electrolytic" solution dries to a white powder that covers the metal for a while.

Thanks for your comments, Enrique. Gives me some new ideas about this.

[Bambikiller240]

I have heard about a baking process that burns everything off and I think someone in the club has done it. The dip process is a real godsend for me. Wauchula is only an hour from here. I think there is a dipping place in Jacksonville, about five hours from here. Dipping is the only way to get 100% rust free inside and out and I really want to be able to say the car is rust free. This process is going to take out all the body sealer and if you look at how the body was welded together (some spot welds are 3" apart) replacing all the seam sealer will pretty much seal up the inside metal, but I still plan to spray some sort of sealer inside what I can reach. I think the garden sprayer is the way to go. The wand will bend and the spray can be adjusted. Just throw it out when you are finished. Let all the primer / sealer just drip out of the seams and make a big mess. I'll have about three weeks to seal the car up before the metal starts to surface rust. The "alkaline electrolytic" solution dries to a white powder that covers the metal for a while.

Thanks for your comments, Enrique. Gives me some new ideas about this.

I *think* it was Z-Point that posted about the baking process for car chassis.

[LanceM]

You're going to laugh but for 20 years I have been sealing up my cars using an undercoat gun from HF and a good grade of asphalt driveway sealer. Smells like hell for a month but it never comes off. Now I don't think I will do it to my Z but it isn't going to see the use my trucks do. Anyway I just stick on a 6' length of 1/2" hose on the end of the gun (really both ends as I just siphon from the 5 gallon bucket) and shove the hose back into areas I can't otherwise get to, pull the trigger and slowly pull the hose out, with the cost of the sealer you just pump it in till your happy