GRM 240Z vs 350Z comparo

[hls30.com]

All major manufacturers (and most small ones too) would rather use already available parts than develop brand new ones for small parts. Several examples are found in The 1960s Ferrari 250GTO, tail lights, tag lights, inner door handles, dash vents, and seats (among other parts) came from a Fiat 850-granted out of the 39ish cars that were made, there is variation in parts used. That wasn't the point.

The 240Z uses a few small parts from Datsun cars that perceeded it, but the parts specific to a 240Z include most of the interior plastic, the glass, all of the body sheet metal, the engine, and most of the suspension. On the 350Z about the only thing that isn't shared is some of the plastic. I am not saying that it is a bad car. I am not saying it isn't a great car, only that is a different trim level of another car-a o-posative relative of sorts. The 240Z is an S30, not a rebodied anything. It was designed to be what it is, and not an assembledge of major assemblies of other existing cars. All of that may sound like bashing, it isn't, I like the car, My next door neighbor has one-my Z is on a rotisserie, and he gets to comfortably enjoy his every day, there is a lot to be said for that!

The 350Z is a nice car, that just so happens to made predominantly from parts designed for other cars. That is not good or bad, it is just the way it is.

The six cyl. L series engine was not designed by Nissan to provide more horse power than it would ultimately be set up for in a Z, it just so happens that it can.

The rating for the installed VQ35 series engine is no higher than 300HP, but the fact of the matter is the VQ35 engine was DESIGNED by Nissan to produce WELL above that, and detuned when put in a car. Datsun did the same thing for the Mazima and the 200SX when they got the L series 6 cyl that was designed for the Z. The VQ35 engine was designed for more form the start, that is Nissan published fact-look at the development articles that support that engine, the first engines assembled proved that.

Will

[72' 240]

O.K. Guys,

I own them both. I have a 72' 240 that I dearly love. Like you, I smile every time I "get on it", and admire the power and technology that placed those cars light years beyond almost any comparably priced car of it's era. They were revolutionary by all standards. I also remember smiling with pride as I left the dealership driving that same 240 after having driven the 350z that I ultimately purchased. I smiled because of all the things that NISSAN, (the same NISSAN that Mr. K disguised by calling it "Datsun" to suit this unknown American market), remembered to include from the 350's great great grandfather.

I love that car, but surely you weren't expecting 240 technology again in THIS era?!?

I was fortunate enough to have found a red "Nismo" 300+ hp 350 with very few of those costly and useless "zx like" cushy things. No GPS, No rag-top, (although they are very nice) nothing cushy. It's stiff, precise, flat in even the hardest corners, quick, fast, and at the same time as sweet as silk. I can approach an 18-wheeler with a passanger (eyes closed) and he, (my father) can't tell you when you are 300 yards back or breaking out of the vortexes that completely scare the @**##** out of me when I try the same in my beloved 240. I've seen it at obscene speeds with 1500 rpms before redline IN 5TH GEAR! Still another gear to go!!! Even more impressive than the small amount of time that it took to get there, was the fact that I was as comfortible as if I were traveling at 80!

My brother owned a 72 454 corvette. When he aquired it in 1982 he had it bored, had a high performance cam, an Edelbrock "torquer" manifold, a Holley 870 dual-line carb and a 2.5 inch low resistance exhaust system installed. I drove it all the time. In 1988 it was regarded amoung the fastest production cars ever built (before all his modifications). It would have eaten my precious 240 alive and digested my bones in the process, but my 04' 350 would beat it in almost every category.

I still recognize and admire the awesome technology that produced the car that all of us can agree on, the 240z; but I cannot ignore with any integrity, my admiration and my enjoyment of, a car that will run with almost ANYTHING on the road today, and carry the flag for z fans like it does.

You guys are great. I really have enjoyed the few short days that I have been a member of this site. You folks really seem to care and want to help each other with problems and share laughs at the same time. I love that! Lets remember that mostly extinct species, and primative cultures eat thier young. Don't be so quick to do so yourselves.

[Bambikiller240]

I still think it's UGLY, and an uninspired copycat design exercise meant to ride on the back of the Z cars before it. Yeah, that should cover it.

[Gav240z]

yeah exactly it's a retro design for people who want a retro car but prefer a new car over an old one.

[hls30.com]

I really don't think of the 350Z as retro, the new Ford Mustang is retro-directly traceable through its lineage. I have to agree with Carl, and quote another member, it is a frog, a very nice, fast, comfortable, great handling frog with huge shoes, but a frog just the same.

I believe My 240Z will end up costing about 12 to 15K-including the car, it should be capable of greater accelleration than a stock 350Z(2400lbs/400hp vs 3225lbs/300hp), similar brakeing(swept area/weight ratios will be close), similar in handling-for stoplight to stoplight racing, and similar comfort-power windows, cup holders, good sterio and the lot.

If a 300hp 350Z is $30K or so, to bring its lb/hp ratio up to the target for my car, would mean it has to find another 254 hp and add only a hundered lbs. What would you think, another $12-15k? Lets see, 30K for the car + 12K(I split the difference)=42K, and I believe I will get close for less than $15K and thoroughly enjoy the trip-Hmmm... Granted, I have done only quick google searches to come up with 350Z upgrade cost, and have researched the crap out of 240Z upgrades, but SportZ is doing yet another article on upgrading the 350Z, and maybe one of you guys that has one has looked into the upgrade costs.

That said, I could be wrong on all of this, but I am putting the $12K, time and energy up or to up to find out, so before you flame, make(or document) a similar investment to prove your point!

I will outline what I am doing, keep the reciepts, and document the results.

Will

[sblake01]

I still think it's UGLY, and an uninspired copycat design exercise meant to ride on the back of the Z cars before it. Yeah, that should cover it.

And an S30 has no more in common with it (the Z33) than it does with the new Mustang! At least the Mustang is still a Ford. What does the Datsun company of the 70s have in common with the present Nissan comany? Hell, the present Nissan company doesn't have much in common with the Nissan company of the 80s.

[hls30.com]

Change is not a bad thing, but a relationship is built on commanalities, and Just because your last name may be Stokes, it does not mean we are related-the same thing holds through with the 240Z and the 350Z.

Will

[daddz]

Will,

You echo the exact same sentiment that a friend of mine does. He figures any jackass can go down to the dealer and sign up for a payment book and buy "300hp". His point is how much creativity did it take to do that. I can see and usually agree with most of that sentiment however, I am reminded of a comment by another Z car friend which goes something like this:

"Why would you want to make that old man do things like that?"

It's not that a Z car can't "handle" the upgrades but at this point a 240Z is a relatively scarce thing and I would rather customize a relatively invaluable 280Z than a 240Z.

That's my opinion for what it's worth.

[hls30.com]

I can appreciate your opinion, and that of your friend, I just don't happen to share either.

I do not really adopt the "any jackass can go down to the dealer and sign up for a payment book and buy "300hp" justification-how many of those byo 300hp jackasses didn't run to the grocery store or a resturant and pay for the food they ate last month-much less yesterday. I am more on the "I haven't seen a car that is as beautiful. I want to keep her forever, and give her the things I want her to have." rationalization. I bought a Volvo S80 and a Dodge 1500 Quadcab as the jackass that could run down and sign for a luxury livingroom on wheels and a deluxe living room on wheels that could tow the house. This jackass bought those two for a purpose, the 240Z was bought and upgraded purely for enjoyment.

I was going to modify a '73 240Z that I was driving daily, but your argument(why do that to such a nice car-comming from a good friend who wanted my '73)-made me choose to use a car that had been off the street for years, and spiralling into the too far gone zone. Still to many good examples to restore to start with one needing so much(noisy head, no brakes, worn out suspension, frozen clutch disk, rusted out exhaust, worn out uphostery, did I mention rust).

Rather than strip several cars to put the '72 back, and still not have a numbers matching car, I decided to make her better than new interms of performance and comfort, but keep the beauty she was born with. When I bought my first Z there were cars that were better performance for about the same price, they just weren't good looking. My wife walked in and saw my 240Z on the rotisserie and said, I never knew a car was just a big metal box. I said a persons body is just a box of human guts. It is how we feel about both that makes them different. To me, every other car is just a big metal box with wheels, but a 240Z is the Young Ann Margarett or Reese Whitherspoon of wheeled metal boxes and the 350Z is a young Phyllis Dyller-fast tight and UGLY!

Will

[240ZX]

And an S30 has no more in common with it (the Z33) than it does with the new Mustang! At least the Mustang is still a Ford. What does the Datsun company of the 70s have in common with the present Nissan comany? Hell, the present Nissan company doesn't have much in common with the Nissan company of the 80s.

Interesting statement Blake! I have to agree 100% about the relationship between the old Nissan and new Nissan company. I guess if it wasn't for Mr. "G" (can't remember how to spell his name) Nissan would just be another page in the history books. I think its a great thing he did, turning around a company ready to roll over from an old management not willing to change with the times. Hell, Mr. "G" is not even Japanesse! So, I think its safe to say that a comparison between the 240Z/350Z and old Nissan/new Nissan are quite similar. Go figure!!! One thing is for certain....everytime I open my garage and see my beautiful toy (240Z), it always brings a big smile to my face. Now when I go for a drive, an incredible thing happens....a 53 years old man turns into a 20 something year old kid (with a bit more common sense of course). I just LOVE my 240Z...Ahmen! :knockedou

[Bambikiller240]

I hate to think that Mr. Ghosen deserves all the credit for "turning around" Nissan. I believe that Renault's MONEY deserves at least 50% of the credit.

Nissan was saved by Carlos Ghosen in the same way the Humane Society saves cats and dogs..........they castrate the beast as part of the process of "saving" it.

I love my 240Z too.

[daddz]

240Z is the Young Ann Margarett or Reese Whitherspoon of wheeled metal boxes and the 350Z is a young Phyllis Dyller-fast tight and UGLY!

I never thought I would hear Phyllis Dyller and those words together in the same sentence!

I bought a Volvo S80 and a Dodge 1500 Quadcab as the jackass that could run down and sign for a luxury livingroom on wheels and a deluxe living room on wheels that could tow the house. This jackass bought those two for a purpose, the 240Z was bought and upgraded purely for enjoyment.

That's cool. Luxury living rooms on wheels serve their purpose too. I am finally a jackass that could go and sign for a payment book to enjoy the experience of buying a Z car brand new and turn the working radio on and not have to worry about fixing rust every other month (not that there's anything wrong with that). So when confronted by my friend's opinion I usually just ask what progress has been made on the project MGB lately. It's similar to my father who happens to be glacially slow in restoring his Hunter 30 sloop. Weekends on the sailboat are usually spent at the wharf and little to no sailing has taken place in 10 years!

Rather than strip several cars to put the '72 back, and still not have a numbers matching car, I decided to make her better than new interms of performance and comfort, but keep the beauty she was born with.

That reminds me of one of the shows on Speedvision which ends with the statement: "Don't crush 'em, restore 'em". With the rotisserie the rust should be all but non-existant when you are done with her?