"Doing it Right"

[26th-Z]

Hey there!

Eastwood sells plenty of body working / metal working videos. Very inspirational. At least you get the chance to watch someone explain what they are doing and why. Eastwood sells the tools and kits to get you started, if you want to learn. One of the first things you will learn, as I did, is that you don't fill holes with lead. You fill holes with metal. Lead is filler for seams and dimples, just like bondo is supposed to be used. After lead is placed, it is filed with a rasp as compared with sanding methods for bondo. One can easily see how bondo took over the market. Keep in mind though, that 240Zs have lead fill issues and thus makes it important for our brand of people to keep the knowledge going. Learn to work lead.

Thank you

[cremmenga]

Do what i'm doing get her down to bare metal and POR-15 the entire car! you have to love that stuff!!! and don't use bondo ever!! use the aluminum filler that is good SH*T!! I have talked to several top notch hot rod biulders and they all told me to use that!

[DoctorMuffn]

Hey there!

Eastwood sells plenty of body working / metal working videos. Very inspirational. At least you get the chance to watch someone explain what they are doing and why. Eastwood sells the tools and kits to get you started, if you want to learn. One of the first things you will learn, as I did, is that you don't fill holes with lead. You fill holes with metal. Lead is filler for seams and dimples, just like bondo is supposed to be used. After lead is placed, it is filed with a rasp as compared with sanding methods for bondo. One can easily see how bondo took over the market. Keep in mind though, that 240Zs have lead fill issues and thus makes it important for our brand of people to keep the knowledge going. Learn to work lead.

Thank you

Great! Thanks for the encouragement. What kind of issues do our Zs have with lead filling?

[DoctorMuffn]

Whoa! There is a lot of media and toolery on Eastwoodco.com. Time to start saving for the knowledge.

[hls30.com]

This months AutoRestorer has a jewel in the "Questions for Larry" about using a newer product for replacing lead in a seam, and the advice given is to use a two part, 3M structural adhesive #3M8115 after removing all of the lead and making any needed repairs-paying close attention to keeping the lead out of your body!

After aplying the structural adhesive, use a skim of filler to finish.

At 3Ms website: "Two-part epoxy used to bond steel, aluminum, SMC, and FRP (traditional fiberglass). The primary use is to replace quarter panels, roofs, box sides, van sides, utility vehicle sides and door skins."

Will

[AWC]

Do you have a link for this article or is it a hardcopy-only publication?

[hls30.com]

I believe it is only avaiable as a hard copy, But I gave the "Readers Digest" version.

http://www.autorestorermagazine.com

Will

[26th-Z]

S30 body shells have lead fill in the seam between the roof and the rear quarter. There is also lead fill at the base of the windshield posts. Those areas should never need attention, however the roof seam can crack. I just got a new Eastwood catalog and noted the couple of pages they have devoted to lead products. Their material products are 70% lead and 30% tin which have a "plastic" temperature range of around 100 degrees. They also have a lead-free material. They have the wooden paddles and of course, all the body files. I'll also opinionate that I think Eastwood is expensive, but I generally think their merchandise is first rate quality. Once you get into it, you'll find all kinds of products out there.

Lead is a good material to use for finishing weld repair areas and areas where surface rust has pitted the metal badly. Where a straight body line is required, lead is in my opin, the way to go. Lead is filed smooth - never sand lead and protect yourself from the dust - always.

I do not like POR. I think POR stands for "Previous Owner's Repair" and because this thread is entitled "Doing it Right", I'll voice my arrogant, purist attitude. Plastic body fillers with metal dust are right up there too. Doing it right means cutting out the rust area and welding in new metal. I like the look of painted metal.

[hls30.com]

Chris,

Your ebay habits(and your avitar) show you like the look of rusty metal more!

I am not sure that the notorious roof line cracking does not prove that lead filler is not a good material to use in that specific area. I am going to have to do that repair too, and I am considering using all kinds of things including the 3M structural adhesive, sliver solder (because it is sooo much stronger) and the automotive lead. A 30 year repair may be a good repair, but a permanent one would be better!

I agree with you about Eastwood-they have some great tools at steep prices, but they also sell tools that came from Harbor Freight at steep prices too. I also agree cutting out the rust and replacing the sheet metal is THE answer.

If you wouldn't mind-and as you get time, Pm me with why you don't like POR.

Thanks,

Will

[26th-Z]

Hey Will,

I'm so creamy with excitement, I can't stand it. Little miss 26 - finally - bare metal! ! ! Its been six damned months !

I have my work ahead. Here are some shots from last weekend when they were stripping her. There are some holes in the firewall to fill from the old A/C. The battery box area is just on the verge. I'll have better, really bare metal, pictures this week. Then the fun starts! You are probably right about the crack problems in the roof seam. I fixed 26th some ten years ago and so far...so good. No crack. With my luck, it will be the first thing that happens after the resto is complete.

I totally agree with the price of tools issue. Shopping for tools is fun and Eastwood will always get you going! They have some cool stuff.

Rust has definitely been my favorite color but its getting rather dated. And all the flaking is embarrassing. I'm going to get a kick out of bare metal. And POR? I just don't think its appropriate. I just don't like the stuff. I guess I should keep my mouth shut. I don't have some expertise, knowledge that convinces me the stuff is crap. I have no mission. I just don't like it. I'm skeptical.

[hls30.com]

Chris,

My car is getting back on track too-derailed by a baby!

My avitar shows my attraction to rust too, but I am getting it all off the car and in the trash bin.

Scepticism is a good thing, it can keep you from making mistakes, but it can also keep you from discovery!

You keep your mouth shut too much, chime in more, I want to hear what you have to say

Congrats on having one of the twins naked, and knowing what to do with her-remember as you post, nothing naked below the waist!

Will

[26th-Z]

Will,

Haven't had too much to say. The car went into park mode and I got on to some other things. The engine is rebuilt. I have also been working on the Vintage Z paper. A lot of time has gone into research and gathering information. I'm still on for a compendium at the national convention. I guess de-railing comes in many forms!

It's time to shell out the $1,400 to have the car dipped and here goes the savings account. I'm going to try to do all the welding work in one shot, get the car to primer, and stand back to look at the finanaces. If we do well, I may get her green by the end of summer. That would be nice. I have two ways to go at the moment. It seems I found another welding "arrangement".

The PLAN was to roll the car between my shop and the body shop - one building next to mine. "Beautiful-Body Rick" was going to weld with his equipment and I was going to grind, cut and fit. Rick and I have this scheme to spray the insides of the chassis with primer using long plastic wands on pump-up garden sprayers. Without any seam sealer in the car, the primer would just run all over the place, but everything would get covered. Then we would do the weld routine. This scheme was developed a long time ago and is why my shop is where it is. Rick won't take my car into his shop because he doesn't want it taking up space. Having the paint shop right around the corner is way convenient.

The new scheme is to leave the car in Wauchula with Don. Dennis and Don bought the place while 26th was there. Don did contract work for the old owners and was involved with a rod shop in Largo. So Don moved his metal shop to Wauchula. Right now, he is working on a Pantera shell. Around Wednesday, I'm going over there for lunch and talk with Don. 26th should be dry and up on saw horses by then. It will be my first look at what metal really wasn't there. Fooled-ya!!! Ru-ust!!!! I know there are some serious issues and it becomes a matter of how much cutting and fitting I want to do. If all the little crap adds up to "lets just replace the floor" or "lets just replace the rail", then I might be inclined to leave 26th with Don. I'm already planning on rear dog legs and some rear wheel arch work. The best part of this deal is that they will dip the car again after all the welding work.

Both guys charge the same hourly. Both guys invoice the same - labor and materials - monthly. One place I pay for the grinding and fitting and cutting. The other situation, I do it. Then there is the argument that I make money faster, sitting here drawing, than the welding shop spends it and that I am better served having the pros do it. We'll just have to see how bad the rust really was. It may cost me a bunch more, but I really like the idea of dipping the car after the welding work is finished. I guess its a matter of how right is doing it right? The down side to this is that I will not get to lay on my back underneath a car in the swealtering summer heat grinding away at a piece of metal I can't really see because my face mask is all fogged up and sweat is running in my eyes.