The Z Car's Nemesis?

[abas]

I wouldn't think you could consider the Capri a contender at all.

The mention of a ford capri is enough to wizz off any British z owner. The number of times that those who know nothing about z's say 'it looks a bit llike a ford capri' as a kind of a summation of what the z is about really gets my goat.

A capri is no competitor chassiswise as they were running a live rear axle and cart springs right up until they stopped making them in the 1980's, and seeing them hop around the circuit at track days whilst z's run rings round them is great. The last and best car from 1987 were no quicker in a straight line than my 1972 standard 240z.

They also had almost as bad a rust problem as z's.

Going offthread a bit the capri is a good example of how poor manufacturer parts support can result in once common cars almost disappearing from our roads, as spare parts for European fords over 20 years old now are almost non existent, and so 1970's capris in good condition are probably rarer than z's. I think the z has fared pretty well in spare parts supply in comparison.

An alfa GTV ? Now that's what I call a rust problem. great car though.

Just my opinion

Andrew

[Fun_in_my_z]

As far as looks go the Z has no nemises!

As far as performance gose. i wouldnt know i havent driven my z yet:cry: .

But its got my vote already .

[Mr Camouflage]

Originally posted by Zedrally

The Capri was an UK version of the 510. A medium family sized car.

Huh? That description sounds more appropriate to the ford escort.

Nothing realy family about the capri. It didnt have 4 doors for a start.

I have an article comparing the 240z to the capri 3000GXL.

The Datsun has 11 more HP from a smaller engine, less torque, higher top speed, faster 0-60mph (by 0.3 seconds) and standing quarter times than the capri, and better mpg.

As for dimentions the capri is only 6 1/2 inches longer, an inch wider than the datsun, and has a longer wheelbase by 10.5 inches, is half an inch shorter than the datsun, and weighs 235 lbs more.

But where the capri fails is in its handling. As the article puts it " the capri is certainly a softer car than the 240z". But then the ford was designed as a sporty car, not a sports car.

The article goes on to say : The Capri was the designed as the european mustang, and was originally code named the Colt.

But Yes.

TORANAS! :mad:

and old porsches :devious:

[26th-Z]

I thought this discussion was about rust !?!!??! Sorry to jump in so late. I was racing SCCA in the mid '70s and the C Production class was dominated by the Z. Don Kearney was the local hero and I watched him blow off everything regularly. The Z always did best on the shorter tracks where the nimble suspension and light weight played to advantage against big powerhouse cars and Sports Racers. In later years, Sharp, Newman, and Fitzgerald kept the fire breathing with their famous drives and win records. Those cars were really tube framed chassis looking like a Z rather than the good old BRE Datsuns. The Alfa GTV ran in a different class behind Datsun 510s in B Sedan. Probably the best comparison race I ever saw was the 1971 runoffs between John Morton and Bob Tullius in a TR6.

[HS30-H]

I have sore elbows...........

I was interested to note ( once again ) a bit of Porsche-bashing on this site. Almost an IZCC mailing-list flashback Has nobody here got any respect for Porsche's pedigree and competition history? Have you ever driven one? Don't let the 'image' - or your perception of it - get in the way.

Difficult to think of a 'competitor' for the first-generation Z amongst ordinary road cars available to the general public. Each specific market would be different in that respect I should imagine. What exactly WAS the first-generation Z car anyway? I don't think of it as a classic 'Sportscar' or a true "GT" either. Was it a new species?

Contemporary road tests here in the UK stuck the Z up against, amongst others, the Lotus Elan +2S 130, Reliant Scimitar GTE, Triumph Stag, Volvo 1800ES, Alfa Romeo 2000 GTV and Ford Capri RS3100. The Z very rarely, if ever, came out on top in the comparisons. Anti-Japanese bias? Hmmmmm...........

As far as racing goes, the major nemesis of the Z were / are the rules and regulations that it had to comply with in the local area where it was being raced. In many cases, these did not allow the Z to use equipment / specs that were homologated and available in the home market, but illegal to use because the local importer did not see fit to make them available. Despite this, the Z still did well.

I believe almost any car with comparable power / size / weight to the Z can be 'improved' / tuned to stay with a sorted Z on the track. I've seen bloody Triumph TR4's and Spitfire GT6's show supposedly 'sorted' Z's around race tracks and certainly a properly prepped / driven early 911 will always give a similarly sorted / driven Z a hard time on the track. Any talk of domination or outclassing opponents - all things considered - is probably down to driver skill and capable mechanics maximising the potential of the car.

I watched a lardy-arsed MK.2 Jaguar saloon circulating Goodwood circuit last weekend, and I swear it would stomp all over most of the 'sorted' Z cars that ever use that track! The driver was standing that thing on its ear...............

In the Z's early days of circuit racing in Japan it had virtually nothing to compete against in the same class. The Z was usually in a GTII class racing for class honours against its own kind, and for overall honours with 'pure' sports-racing cars and prototypes. At the end of its Japanese circuit race career in the Grand Champion series, it was given a very hard time by the Mazda RX3.

[Bambikiller240]

The reason I like to bash Porsches is that I still remember the Porsche 911 owners of the 70's in CA who pulled their heads out of their arse just long enough to stick it in the air at the thought of a Japanese car in the same race as they were................until that Japanese car waxed said arse quite nicely. Then they whined like babies.

The cars were nice, if a bit quirky to drive, but it was the attitude of the owners that I hated most intensely.

I don't know any hardcore Porsche owners anymore. They are still around, I just don't know them.

Back to abusing my elbows !:stupid:

[gema]

Next car I buy will be a Porsche, so no bashing from this angle. Though if I were racing, I'd take a Z over any Porsche anyday!

[Zs-ondabrain]

All right, All right already. But what about todays car??

For instance, Me and my girl friend just loaded the Z up w/ $250 worth of grocery's. We have a combined weight of about 280lbs.

This idiot in a red convertable 03' Mustang Cobra, (4.8L V8??)

pulls up to the stop light that we're sitting at, revving his motor like he's hot sh*t. My girlfriend looks over at me, then at him, then back at me again and says,

"your not seriously going to let this moran take you, are ya??"

I smiled and said "we'll see." The side streets light turned yellow, then red, and as soon as our light turned green, the gas peddle went down and the clutch got dropped.

Even with the combined weight of me and her, the Z, a butt load of grocery's and a full tank of gas (aprox 144lbs) This guy was sucking the fumes of 130,000 hard miles and a couple bad piston rings (ya, it smokes when I get on it).

We get to the nexy light and Mr. Droopy McSlowtogo has got the dumbest look on his face. I can barely hear him say "what the hell does that thing have in it," over my girlfriend laughing at him.

I tell him it's a 2.4 liter 6 with a cam and a header, and he still looks dumbfounded. The light turns green, the car in front of him is a little to slow, so we loose him in traffic.

She laughed half the way home and a little more that night.

So my question is, what are the Z's REAL competition with todays type cars??

Dave.

[hls30.com]

It isn't the cars that are the target, it is the owners or the drivers, and then only the ones with the attiutude that just because they spent some money on the car, somehow they deserve the respect due the marque. My experience has been that most drivers/owers that fall into that category really can't drive anyway. They are like many wealthy people who appreciate the car because it is expensive, but don't understand that the reasons it is expensive. I have several people in my neighborhood who drive cars they are not capable of handling safely. One guy with a Boxter had war wounds atleast twice in the last month, and honestly thinks he is a better driver than Mario Andretti.

His attitude is that Porsche is the only car, everything else is vermin excrement.

It really upsets him horribly when I have the Z out and pull up in front of his house. His son always wants to go for a ride in the Z, and when he told his father that the Z was faster, I thought Dads head would explode-bright red face!

That mentality is the target of my "bashing" My Z is right for me, his porsche is a beautiful and fine automobile, but the owners' attitude is what I take issue with.

Will

[hawaiiankine]

BambiKiller240 - I know what you mean about the attitude of 911 guys. I really love those cars, definitely go against the grain in terms of engineering and handling, but the owners just seem to ruin it all.

I visit the Porsche forum over at Pelicanparts.com every now and then and half of the threads are dealing with "How often does your 911 get you laid?" or "Do Viper Owners get more action than 911 owners?" Or something to that effect. Okay, I can understand a humorous post like that once in a while, but it seems like half the people over there are just concerned with how they look while driving their 911. Totally turns me off from even wanting to buy one anymore.

Oh well.

I suppose its between the 240Z and the Alfa GTV 2000 for me. I know that they raced in different classes in the 70's, but in terms of wanting a classic sports car that's affordable and has a group of amiable enthusiasts dedicated to it...that's what I'm considering.

So, the Z-car has many nemeses (nemesi?) it just depends on which market you're in, whether you're on the track or the street, and whether you're competing with new or old tin. Makes sense.

aloha,

Joel

[getrdone]

I visit Pelican daily and that generally is not the way things are over there. Most threads are about swaps, maintance and upgrades

Pelican caters to earlier 911s owned by enthusiasts that do most if not all of their own work. The new cars over there are about 15 to 20 years old so I don't think that you can call them elitest. Chuck

[Alfadog]

My dad owns a 911 (1988).......................... and the way that thing handles is insane. He's always owned Alfas & British stuff before this, I guess he's attracted to strange driving positions and various fluid leaks.