Philosophical discusion on build dates

[HS30-H]

Its OK guys,

When I'm talking about door jamb tags, I'm only talking about the USA / North American market cars.

I understand that they were the only ones to have the door jamb tags with the 'date of manufacture', and that your Australian market cars had compliance plates added in the engine bay.

Just to make it clear; Japanese-market and UK-market cars had no 'date of manufacture' tags, or any other way of reliably knowing when the car was actually made.

Cheers,

Alan T.

Edit: Spelling mishtake..

[NickF]

00001 early 56789 late

Simple

Nick

[kats]

Hi,

Andrew,my Z's seat belt tag is Dec 1969.My car is Mar 1970,door jamb has 01-70 and 11-69.I have not seen into steering wheel,when I am in L.A. I will check.

26th-Z,I also want to see your owners manual.I have Jan 1970 and Mar 1970 issued,I want to compare them with yours.My Jan 1970 one is interesting,it has some unique pages which has coverd by revised pictures,I can see the original describ is about throttle contorol.Your Dec 1969 one is the same?

Alan T,

I may not be philosophic,I just want to enjoy guessing and imaginating about how and when the parts are assembled together and became the car,how and when the car departed japan and then...We seem not to able define the actual date of manufacture,I just want to guess and think.

I want to know the engine number of HS30-00003,4,and 13.Alan,if you know the engine number of HS30-00013,please let me know.

It is a good idea to use cross referencing technique.We do not know the actual date of the car,but we can guess and enjoy thinking about ?gwhen it was made?h.I say again,we can not determine the date,just have a fun to imagine.

?gTo list up the parts which shows the date on it as much as you can.?h

For the U.S. owners,compare those dates to yours door jam date(month) plate.When we got several owners answer(or more is better of cource),we can have a general understanding of when the car was made and when the date plate was installed.I think the date plate was installed at the end of the construction,but I want to confirm the date of the plate is the lastest date comparing its other small parts?fs date.i.e.if the date plate march1970,but may1970 on a seat belt tag and the tag is original from it was assembled, in this case my theory is not correct.

For the AUS and U.K. and other countries owners whoes car does not have a date plate,

When we got a kind of general understanding of the U.S. date plate,if it is worth to trust,then compare your engine number to the U.S. cars.Of cource engine numbers are not in sequence perfectly but it is good for thinking about relationship between engine number and the date plate.Mr.Carl Beck?fs web site has a lot of member?fs vin number and engine number.Use cross referencing technique,we can guess when the lowest HS30-0000X or 000XX was made.Using this technique,some HS30 will be considered ?gat least it is not 1969 made?h.

And I recommend ?gcompare small early parts?h.We know some parts are seen in only early s30.Even the parts do not have the date,we may use those parts to guess the date of manufacuture of the car. For example,following items are seen in the car which has 1969 to Jan or Feb 1970 date plate.

Rear view mirror ?gred dot?h

Plastic fuel filer lid and it is closed at vertical position of its knob

?gChrome Z?h for the piller and rear deck 240Z emblem

Cabin air intake has a metal basement

Unique hood bamper on the cowl top

Gray plastic for the heater contorol panel and ash tray

If the non U.S.car have these parts,and engine number is around L24-3000,and seat belt tag or other parts has date 1969,it is "possibly 1969 made".But still this is just my thought.

kats

[HS30-H]

Originally posted by Zedrally

You mention the numbers in the door jamb, Aussie cars don't have this.

Are you saying that UK delivery did?

Hi Mike,

No - just to clarify: I wrote "Do we follow the door jamb tags - where fitted - to the letter?"

When I refer to door jamb tags, I am of course only referring to the one market that they were used in: USA / North America.

What I'm trying to get at is that these USA / North American market cars are being used to compare with other market cars in questions of actual build date. My point is that the door jamb tags are not necessarily an ACCURATE dating reference.

Cheers,

Alan T.

[HS30-H]

Originally posted by 240 in OZ

HS

I think we are talking different things here, and I apologies for that. I am talking about the first car bought into Australia, not the first, or earliest RHD car made.

I was under the belief that 004 RHD made it to Australia in 1970 and was the roadtest car used by Aussie scribes at the time.

Mr C reports that 003 RHD made it to Australia in 1971. Sure it MAY have been made first, Im not discounting that...buy 004 was here BEFORE 003.

BTW, Aussie cars DID NOT!!!! get the door data tags.

Joseph

Hi Joseph,

Sorry if I got the wrong end of the stick there.

Mind you - if HS30-00004 was elsewhere before coming to Australia, I'd really like to know WHERE it was and WHAT it was doing there.

It might be an important part of the jigsaw puzzle. I'm sure that Nissan were testing some HS30's just before official exports of them began. It would be very interesting if we could prove that one or more HS30's were being used in Japan for R+D purposes.

Cheers,

Alan T.

[HS30-H]

Originally posted by kats

Alan T,

I may not be philosophic,I just want to enjoy guessing and imaginating about how and when the parts are assembled together and became the car,how and when the car departed japan and then...We seem not to able define the actual date of manufacture,I just want to guess and think.

kats

Hi Kats,

I think that's pretty much what I am doing - and enjoying doing it too.

I don't actually expect to get an accurate date and time for the 'birth' of each car, but its interesting and fun trying to get close to it.

That's why I originally described this as a "Philosophical" discussion...............

Alan T.

[HS30-H]

Originally posted by kats

Just information,

In japan,there is no plate date stamped any where.Engine room ID plate shows chassis number,but no engine number.However to own the car,we have to registrate for the document,it has engine number,dimentions,model type(not start from "S30",it is completely different number),owners adress,etc.

kats

Kats,

Is the document you are referring to the 'Jidosha Kensa Sho'?

I have copies of these for both of my Japanese-market cars ( on import to the UK the Jidosha Kensa Sho and Japanese 'De-Registration' documents have to be presented to our vehicle licensing authority, along with an authorised translation of them.

Both of mine state clearly the Model Type ( in my case, one S30 and one HS30 ) and full 'Shatai Bango' ( full VIN number ).

Is yours different, then?

Alan T.

[HKSZ]

I owned #98 and always assumed it to be a S1 1969 model.

British racing green, black interior, hatch vents and hand throttle etc. But what made me think its a 69 was the fact it had no ADR compliance plate. Correct me if I'm wrong but Australian Design Rules didn't come into being until 1970, just as the fitment of rear seat belts is not manditory for cars built before that date.

My first car was a hotted up '64 EH Holden and it didn't have a ADR plate just the manufactures build plate.

Steve

[26th-Z]

Hi kats,

Photographs of my Owner's Manual are in my gallery - page 3. You will notice the printing date of the manual - 20 December, 1969.

This is the shipping bill fo my car. I keep these papers safe in a bank. Probably safer than the car!

[26th-Z]

This is the Bill of Sale for my car. I erased the names on the .jpg file for privacy reasons, but everything else is original.

[26th-Z]

Everyone,

When this thread started, I got my paperwork out and while looking at it, discovered some great stuff relating to several threads we have had in the past. Throttle controls on the early cars, rear-view mirror types, seatbelts, original tire specifications, and many other things are shown in the owner's manual and would clear up many questions. I will try to go back and find those threads so that I can post pictures of my information. Should be fun!

Kats, since you are going to the convention in June, I will bring this information with me to show you.

This is the cover of the Warranty and Service Book for my car.

[26th-Z]

Information is typed inside the front cover. This was a 12 month / 12,000 mile warranty and the tires and battery were covered seperately from the manufacturer. The pages are tear-aways for service intervals and the first few are missing from my book, but the later pages up to 36,000 miles are still there.