Was the 240z designed for America?

[halz]

I have unashamedly lifted this quote from Ben's (v12-horse) post in another thread....

I asked the golden question; a question that I have been pondering for a while. I said, “ Was the S30 designed for the Japanese market with America in mind, or was it made for America?” His answer was very simple and composed. I had a feeling that he was not going to say that it was for Japan only, but I still did not know what he was going to say. Matsuo said, “The S30 was a car not just made for Japan or America, but for the world. It was to be accepted world wide.” Matsuo also continued to say that the seats were not very wide and that was fine for the Japanese people, but for Americans it was not because they were statistically bigger people. Also, the hand brake was designed for a right hand drive car, but he wanted it to be on the left side of the tunnel for the LHD cars and on the right side for the RHD cars.

I think we can now say that the z was not specifically designed for the American market but was "to be accepted world wide" - case closed!

[Alfadog]

But...... Mr. Matsuo is a very polite man. ;)

[halz]

Shhhh!

[HS30-H]

Hi Halz,

I think the way that the question is asked is important........

There's a loophole there that can be exploited by people who want to see things in a certain way.

Personally, I would prefer to ask the question: "Was the S30-series Z designed for the American market?". That's a different question isn't it? I think that's where Matsuo san is usually very diplomatic and fair, and of course - as the chief designer of the S30-series Z - realises and remembers that the "240Z" is only one part of the story of the first-generation Z cars.

I would say that there is no doubt that the "HLS30U" was aimed primarily at the USA / Canada market, but the version of the S30-series Z that was aimed at that market was NOT the whole story of the Z car, was it?

Close analysis and comparison of ALL the first-generation variants shows that certain details and features were included in the design specifically to cater for the fact that this was to be a "World Car", and that several different versions / variants were to be made from it. However, certain parts of the design were naturally oriented to the fact that the car was 'born' in an RHD-oriented country, and shared components with other primarily RHD models. To ignore or discount this is just plain silly.

I tried to make the point about the handbrake positioning to Mick Walsh of Classic and Sportscar Magazine a few months back when he was writing an article comparing the Z33 with the S30 ( of course, it ended up being '350Z' compared to '240Z' as usual ) but unfortunately he didn't follow it through in the article. I pointed out to him that the handbrake on the S30-series Z was always on the RIGHT side of the tunnel regardless of LHD or RHD, and that the handbrake on the Z33 is always on the LEFT side of the tunnel regardless of LHD or RHD. I think that says something. It doesn't spoil the experience for most people, but it still says something.

Most telling is that Matsuo san wanted to have two positions for the handbrake - to cater for both RHD and LHD markets - but the bean-counters would not let him do it, and they chose the RHD positioning as the 'default'.

Alan T.

[Zrush]

What about the exhaust manifold running down the left hand side of the S30 near the drivers foot. Does this add to the discussion that the Z was originally designed as a right hand drive vehicle or is this just a coincidence?

Vicky

[HS30-H]

Originally posted by Zrush

What about the exhaust manifold running down the left hand side of the S30 near the drivers foot. Does this add to the discussion that the Z was originally designed as a right hand drive vehicle or is this just a coincidence?

Vicky

Hi Vicky,

I think the routing of the exhaust system was always going to be that way because it followed on from the fact that the L20, L24 and S20 engines all have exhaust manifolds on the left side of the car ( viewed from the driver's seat ). If you think about it, there are many other RHD-biased details on the cars too.

Matsuo san told me that Nissan's engine layouts followed-on from the Austin configuration that they started assembling in the post-war period. With Austin being a British manufacturer, these were - of course - naturally oriented to the RHD layout.

Its that "Designed as a right-hand-drive vehicle" quote that causes many disagreements. I think its clear that the first-generation S30-series Z cars were designed to take both RHD and LHD variants into account, but the fact that many components and much of the layout was naturally biased towards Japan's own RHD market is hard to argue against.

Designing a product like a car, and especially a car that is to be sold at a competitive price in several different markets, is always a compromise. "Design Concession" comes into play, and the designers can't always have the final car exactly as they would ideally like it to be. Any bias to RHD layout and configuration is understandable, given the circumstances. Denying that is - in my view - fairly Quixotic. There are still a few Don Quixotes out there in the 'Z Community' though.

Alan T.

[halz]

Alan,

I'm not really trying to stir up the old debate again (you know I agree with you on this subject anyway). I just thought it would be pertinent to capture a live quote from Matsuo given the past history of debate on the topic.

(no reply from Carl Beck yet)

Hayden.

[HS30-H]

Hi Hayden,

I'm glad that you brought it up again, and yes - I agree its pertinent to capture that quote from Matsuo san.

Weren't there some people in that old 'Interior Ergonomics' thread who said that they thought the handbrake lever was supposed to be on the RIGHT side of the tunnel in LHD cars, and that it was the RHD cars that must be 'wrong'?

Matsuo san's comment would prove that not to be the case.

However, it seems that most LHD owners have got along just fine with the cars as they were. I presume that owners of RHD Z33 models are learning to get along just fine with their handbrake lever position too :-)

All the best,

Alan T.

[HS30-H]

Originally posted by halz

I think we can now say that the z was not specifically designed for the American market but was "to be accepted world wide" - case closed!

Nobody wants to play ball with us do they halz?

Case closed then........

[halz]

Nobody wants to play ball with us do they halz?

...Actually I think there is clear evidence that the Z was designed exclusively for the Australian and British markets... Handbrake on the correct side of the trans tunnel (Heck, the whole steering wheel is on the right side in MY car), exhaust system on opposite side to steering system, aerial on opposite side to driver so as to not be hidden in mirror blind-spot (gotta know whether its up or down!)... I could go on...

That ought to smoke them out Alan

[Alfadog]

And remember, we got the 5-Speed!!

[Bambikiller240]

Originally posted by HS30-H

Nobody wants to play ball with us do they halz?

Case closed then........

Beating a dead horse loses it's "fun factor" after the horse starts to rot, and this one has been talked to death.