Pertronix Test???

[Marty Rogan]

My 70 with Pertronix unit installed died yesterday. Was sitting at a light. It was not holding an idle. Had to keep feeding it gas. Then it just started loosing power and died. Couldn't get it started again.

It seems to have a very weak spark. I was thinking the Pertronix might have fried. Is there anyway to test it???

TIA,

Marty

[Bambikiller240]

I'm not aware of one. But if there is one, I'd like to know about it also.

If it turns out you do need another Pertronix, I have one. PM me. EDIT : SOLD!

[Chino 240Z]

When I was chasing a problem I needed to call Pertronix (909) 599-5955 regarding a loose reluctor, they were good to talk to. Check the web site www.pertronix.com -there is a support section with helpful troubleshooting info, which may help you? I would check the gap of the magnetic pick-up and the reluctor donut. Also if you have another coil you can use to check if yours is bad. Check your Battery for 12V too.

Good Luck

Craig

[Marty Rogan]

Thanks for the tips guys. I didn't even think to check their website.

Marty

[Bambikiller240]

On my Pertronix Ignitor, the air gap between the ring of magnets and the Ignitor (pick-up) is fixed. i.e. it cannot be altered.

Also, the troubleshooting guide on the Pertronix site is geared more toward installation problems rather than troubleshooting a failure of a previously functioning unit. It wasn't very helpful to me when I suspected an Ignitor failure. (It turned out that it wasn't the Pertronix.) Hopefully, calling will get you more information.

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"Since I have installed the Ignitor™ the engine won’t start. What can I check?

The first step in trouble shooting involves answering a few questions.

Do you have the correct kit for your application?

Did the Ignitor install without any modification?

Was the Ignitor installed according to the instructions?

Did the engine run prior to the installation of the Ignitor?

If you answered "NO" to any of the previous questions, go back and correct the condition before proceeding. If the answer to these questions is “YES”, then review some additional common solutions to a no start condition.

The position in which the Ignitor red wire is attached to is not supplying sufficient voltage.

The air gap between the module and magnet sleeve is too great.

The ground wire inside the distributor is not connected.

The wire connections are not tight.

The polarity is not correct.

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What type of coil can I use with the Ignitorâ„¢? How do I check my coils resistance? (12V negative ground only)

To determine if your systems coil is compatible with the Ignitor, some measurements should be taken prior to installation of the Ignitor. Caution… While performing this test, never leave the ignition switch on for more than 30 seconds at a time.

Set your voltmeter to a 15 or 20-volt scale. Attach an 18 or 20 AWG jumper wire from the negative coil terminal to an engine ground. Attach positive (red) lead of your voltmeter to the positive side of the coil, and the negative (black) lead to an engine ground. Turn the ignition switch to the run position. Now read the voltage at the positive coil terminal. Turn the ignition switch off. If the voltage measured is approximately 12 volts, no resistance wire is present. A typical resistance wire will provide 9 - 6 volts.

The next step is to determine the resistance in the primary ignition. Label the wires attached to the coil terminals and note their appropriate location. Make sure that the ignition switch is off and disconnect all wires from the coil. Adjust your meter to the lowest ? ohm scale. If you are using an analog style meter make sure to zero the needle. Measure from the negative terminal to the positive terminal. Write your measurement down.

Now the maximum system amperage can be determined, divide your voltage measurement by your coil resistance measurement. This will give you the system current or amperage.

Four cylinder engines should not exceed 4 amps. Six and eight cylinder engines should not exceed 8.5 amps. If the total amperage in your system is higher than the amount recommended for your application, you should install a ballast resistor.

Example Voltage 12

Resistance 1.5

12 / 1.5 = 8

Total amperage 8

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What will happen if I leave the ignition switch on when the engine is not running?

Leaving the ignition switch on when the engine is not running, can cause permanent damage to the ignition system, and related components. This does not apply to the accessory position of the ignition switch."

[Chino 240Z]

My ignitor is quite old and has some adjustment, so not sure what the later ones look like? If it was working fine and then later you experience problems, chances are it's not the Pertronix unit. My problem was found else where too, but checking that the ignitor was installed correctly, and after having a shop put the distibutor on a machine and spinning it to 8000rpm (Pertronix Ignitors are good thru 11K rpm) and everything was fine confirmed that my problem was elsewhere. Like I was told, "If you think your problem is ignition? it's fuel." And "If you think your problem is fuel? it's ignition." Except, I thought I had a fuel problem and so everyone (dyno shop, mechanic friends & others) told me to look at my iginition. Well I went through alot of time, money and effort to find that it was fuel. Good side of it all is that I learned alot about my ignition, got extra parts now, all new wiring and a good feeling of knowing I got good spark. Anyways- Keep looking and let us know what you find.

[Marty Rogan]

Carl,

What symptoms was your car having that made you suspect the Pertronix went bad? What ended up being the real problem? It may shed some light on what's going on with my car.

Thanks,

Marty

[Bambikiller240]

Originally posted by Chino 240Z

......... Like I was told, "If you think your problem is ignition? it's fuel." And "If you think your problem is fuel? it's ignition." .........Craig

Ah yes. Very true in my case as well.

Originally posted by Chino 240Z

Carl,

What symptoms was your car having that made you suspect the Pertronix went bad? What ended up being the real problem? It may shed some light on what's going on with my car.

Marty

Before rebuilding my engine, it would pull strong and consistant all the way to 6500 RPM and beyond if I asked it to do so(I very seldom did).

After rebuilding my engine, when I reinstalled the carbs and ignition, the engine would perform just fine until about 3500 to 4200 RPM, then the engine would go "flat". Loose torque and power and jujst not pull strong. RPM would continue to rise, but s-l-o-w-l-y, then after about 4200 RPM the engine would get back to somewhat normal performance although it would "top out" in terms of RPM before 6000 RPM.

In attempt to resolve the problem. initially I replaced the fuel pump and filter, then I moved to playing around with timing a bit, then swapping out the coil, and then the distributor (kept same Pertronix), then since I was "sure" that it was an ignition problem I bought another Pertonix and swapped it in. Same problem still existed.

Problem turned out to be the carbs were not functioning properly. I had never considered them because "they had worked fine for 30+ years" and I hadn't done anything to them to cause a change. I had a set of ZTherapy reman SU's sitting in the shop, but had wanted to ensure that the engine was running fine before installing them. After a bit of discussion with members of the club, "Blitzkraig" suggested trying the new carbs, so we installed them and he graciously tuned them for me and the problem finally was solved.

[Marty Rogan]

Well, Someone said, "if you think it is electrical, it is probably a fuel problem".

And they would be right! In this case, it turned out to be a lack of fuel!! :stupid: The gas gauge quit on me. Still haven't figured that one out. Thought I put it away for the winter with a full tank. Only drove about 80 miles, so it never occured to me that I could be out of gas.

It had other carb problems too. The butterfly valve screws were backing out, had a bent linkage and needed new needles. The mechanic also told me that the butterfly valve will not close completely and is letting air get around it. Said he could not fix that due to the way that Z Therapy installed the shaft with roller bearings. Anybody heard of this issue before?

Anyway, I got it back and it idles at 1,000 now. A little high, but at least it is steady and doesn't stall out on me.

I'll have to get around to putting the Pertronix back in.

At least I can drive it now.

Marty

[Chino 240Z]

I don't know about the butterfly being installed wrong by ZTherapy- besides you will never have it completely closed anyways, it will always need to be slightly open for idle airflow. Gotta double check the set on my bench. Anyways if it has the bearing shaft- most likely it is still in good shape with little wear. Does the idle stay high even after it is warmed up real good? Ours drop a good 200 to 300 rpm after it is good and warm.

But that sounds great that its up and running again. The cost of education these days! :eek:

Craig

[Marty Rogan]

Unfortunately, it was at the shop, quite a distance away, so I didn't see it personally. But from the way he described it, it sounded like the butterfly it self was undersized, or misaligned somehow. I understand your point that it would not close 100% though.

It seems to have always had this problem of sometimes idling too high after being warmed up. When you blip the trottle, it drops 200-300. It is still doing this sometimes now. That is one reason I went with the ZT carbs in the first place. I am sure that there is no wear, since these carbs could not have more than about 2K on them.

Funny, my '71 seems to have just the opposite problem. It idles low (about 550) when it is cold, and then idles correct and steady (800-900) when fully warmed up. I am not sure why this happens on 240's.

Marty

[Chino 240Z]

Butterflies undersized? Interesting, wonder if they worked or tappered the leading edges alittle, or the shafts & screw heads (one of the racer tricks) for better flow? So, when you say sometimes, do you know if they or the linkage hangs up alittle? When they catch that fast idle thingy, have you got up there and movered the linkage around or the butterfly shafts to see if it makes a change and drop the idle back down?