choke issues

[BadDog]

I installed a new choke cable assembly from MSA last night to try and clear up the "kludge" of 2 individual choke pull-handles mounted under my dashboard... In taking everything out, I found out why it was there: It looks like 1 of the original choke cables (half of which were still in the car attached to the original, broken, choke lever) broke, and one of the moutning points for the choke lever under the console was broken off.

So, I removed the kludge and the old cut-off factory choke assembly and installed the new cable assembly. I just put a sheet metal screw through the top of my console, because it's in rough shape anyway

In trying to get everything adjusted and testing the lever movement, I managed the break the other plastic mounting point. Enter another sheet metal screw

Without having even a Haynes manual, I wasn't sure where to route the cables through the firewall (they didn't fit through the hole where the Kludge cables went through, which I wasn't sure was original, so I used the hood release (? I think?) hole (no grommet))

Anyway, the problem is that when I pull the choke lever back, it doesn't stay put. I played with adjusting the cables, but it doesn't make much difference. Watching from the driver's seat, it seems like the range of motion for the chokes is covered by roughly 1/2 the range of motion of the lever (I could see something moving up and down underneath the carbs). I'm wondering if whoever installed the Kludge changed some springs somewhere to stronger ones because the Kludge cables were so stiff. I'm also wondering if the rear choke is sticking, as it wasn't always moving when I manually moved the lever on the side of the carb where the cable attaches.

I also think the car is running VERY rich, but that's a subject for another day... (lots of black exhaust, doesn't rev very willingly under load, seems to "strain" to accelerate at more than part-throttle and doesn't seem to quick). I think I better get that Z therapy video :-)

(BTW I was told by the seller that my car has '72 carbs)

If it'll help, I'll post a few digital pics here tomorrow night...

[2ManyZs]

There is a hole in the firewall just for the choke cables. It is just to the right and a little below the hood latch frame. It is right in line with the backside of the carbs, it should come straight out of the firewall and go straight towards the metal fuel rail before it turns towards the carbs.

As far as the return springs, I'll have to get out in the garage and see exactly where they should be, my mental picture is a little clouded due to lack of sleep. :sleep:

[Phacade]

When I got rid of the makeshift choke from my '73 (which I think might have been a lawnmower cable??), I read the Haynes. I talked to Sam at MSA, and spent a long time forming a strategy. Now this could be completely different on other year cars, however it seems correct given the hardware and all. My choke cable(s) were factory, 1 lever going to two actuators. I install them in the center consol, then souted them underneath the consol, arounf the under the dash through the passenger side, up through an existing hole and out. The factory choke has a rubber grommit that was about 3 inches long and has a notch to mount it in this hole. Fits like a glove. No leaks, OEM look. Now from under the hood (looking from front of car) the hole was on the left, still passenger side, about 5 inches below the hood latch. There was a bracket on the valve cover the looked like a "V" the held each of the cables seperatly. From here the went over and stright to my SU's. It took two people to adjust them properly; one in the car and one under the hood. Hope this helps.

[BadDog]

2ManyZs, that's the hole I tried to use first. I think in order to use it, I'll have to take apart the choke handle assembly and remove the cables from it to run them through there... but I don't think that the grommet that came with the new assembly will fit that hole. The grommet's too big...

Timberwolf, I think mine were lawn mower cables too

I think I see the hole you are talking about; it is currently passing what appears to be a vacuum tube. However, one end of said tube is just sitting on the passenger side floor, the other end is flopping around the engine bay, disconnected

What's the procedure for adjusting them properly? Is it covered in the Haynes?

[Daniel]

My 73 has the cable in the same position as timberwolf's.I hate you used the screw thru console method to repair the mount. JB weld works great for that repair.Your choke(s)may be sticking.Try moving them by hand without the cables attached.Then try your control wthout the carbs.They should move very easy.I can move mine with my little finger!!If your cable is hard to slide,cut a piece of drinking straw about 4 inches long and duct tape it over the carb end of the cable.Add a few drops of oil or wd40.hang it from your hood latch with a coathanger or such.Gravity will do the rest.With the choke lever fully forward(off) and the chokes fully off on the carbs.Tighten down your cable screws on the carbs.If the chokes are sticking you may lift the piston in the carbs and blast carb cleaner.That MAY help. Daniel

[BadDog]

Believe me, if you saw the shape my center console is in, you wouldn't worry To use JB weld, don't you need 2 pieces to weld together? Mine was gone...

The cables move very easily; they're brand new. The problem is they don't *stay* closed; you pull the handle back and it doesn't stay.

I think I tried "With the choke lever fully forward(off) and the chokes fully off on the carbs.Tighten down your cable screws on the carbs" but that didn't work: my car wouldn't cold-start because the chokes weren't even close to being closed.

So, I did just the opposite: pull back the lever all the way, and pull up the choke until it was closed, then set the screws. Before I did that, I tried to find a "happy medium", but it seems that my chokes only move during the latter 1/3rd of the levers' (on the carb) range of motion.

I think I need to confirm what carbs I have (they're supposedly '72's) and some some cleaning/oiling and get the Z Therapy video before I pull any of my hair out... I may just end up pulling off the whole intake and cleaning it all up because I think there's a leak on the exhaust half of the manifold gasket

That would really suck, because I wanted to drive the car as much as I could this summer to work out these kinds of bugs, and who knows when I'll get it back together again

[Daniel]

I had enough of the part that broke off of the console to JB it back in place.I have known people to jb a block of hardwood under the console to screw into.Sounds like you have some carb issues.The choke movement should equal the lever.You can't have any choke on under normal conditions as that will make you run to rich.Maybe you need to cut off some of the cable housing to give more travel?I have a 73 with 72 carbs.No problem. Daniel

[BadDog]

Thanks Daniel, I'd say my choke movement does definitely not equal the lever. It may very well be that the choke is not opening up all the way; the car seems to run rich. Like I said before, who *knows* what other modifications were made when putting on the kludged-up 2-handle solution... if I had the spare cash I'd just exchange my carbs for rebuilt ones

I think I need to see that video, another Z's setup in person, or both

[2ManyZs]

Well, I hate to disagree with you guys, but the choke cables come out on the drivers side of the engine compartment. The hole is just below the throttle linkage. I believe it is a little to the left of the throttle linkage, not directly below it. It should follow a straight path from the console thru the firewall and out to the intake.

For confirmation, look in the Photo Galleries. Mike has posted a picture of the engine compartment from a new car brochure of the 240Z.

And if I'm not mistaken there is no real return spring on the choke cables, since the cables are solidly mounted to the bracket on the carbs I don't think there is a real reason for one. And with new cables I think there is a little bit, maybe an inch, that will be excess when the cable is adjusted properly that will be through the lever assembly for the choke. Easiest way to find out if the choke is opening all the way or not is to take off the air cleaner and have someone operate the choke lever and watch the butterfly.

[BadDog]

2ManyZs, there *is* a whole on my firewall that lines up with the carbs, and the kludge cables were coming through there, but the new cables wouldn't fit through it without taking them apart (plus, I didn't think that the grommet for the cables would fit). I'm not saying you're wrong or anything though The hole on my firewall in that area is only about 1/4" wide, maybe 1/2" high and irregular in shape. I thought that maybe it had been drilled there for the kludge. It *also could be* the case that the correct whole on my car has been commandeered by something else :-)

I have a brochure at home for the '73, I'll see if there's any engine compartment shots

I just looked at Mike's pic, it looks like that's the same too-small-hole I was talking about... I guess I'll have to take the choke handle apart to get the cables off, though

I think I'll take some snapshots tonight and post them...

[2ManyZs]

Well, I guess it is possible someone may have "boogered up" the hole in the firewall. But IMO you should try to use this as you need to have the cables as straight and parallel as possible. You should just be able to unhook the cables at the carbs and feed them back through the firewall and then back out to the carbs.

You have two cables of unequal length, so it's possible one cable is binding up and not going thru it's whole range of motion compared to the other one. That's why they should be straight and parallel. This might be why one choke is not opening or closing properly.

[BadDog]

I'm 95% sure that they're equal lengths... I just got them from MSA. I tried feeding them through that hole, but they have rubber boots on them and a large-ish metal crimp holding the top of the boot (viewing when installed) in place on the sable sheath. I started to barely get 1 through, then realized there wa sno way the other one would fit through also

BTW, when I said it seemed like the rear carb choke might be sticking, that was moving the lever *on the carb* by hand (where the cable attaches to it). The cable was unhooked, and sometimes I couldn't move it, other times I could Methinks it needs some lube, I just gotta figure out where... guess I could just spray the whole thing with WD40 and make a mess I'd be bound to hit it

BTW I agree that I should use the correct hole on the firewall