Just bought a factory restored 72 240Z!

[Zrush]

In looking through the documentation and paperwork that I have on my 1972 240Z, I find that Nissan referred to this program as "Nissan Vintage Z Pre-Owned Vehicle". Nissan documentation also states that these cars are "Nissan authorized remanufactured pre-owned Datsun vehicles that have been reconditioned to meet Certification standards".

There's alot of reading, but in no area that I can see does Nissan ever state that these cars are "Factory Restored" as the term is being argued.

I will do a complete reading of all the documentation I have later.

Vicky

[v12horse]

Maybe Bristol doesn't count though, eh? How many Americans have heard of Bristol Cars? We are - after all - now in the "New American Century", or so I hear.

Many Americans should and do know about Bristol because the AC Ace was the basis of one of the most famous American car of the 60's (Shelby Cobra). Us Americans had to rip the straight six out and add some Detroit iron. :stupid: That was a nice transplant IMHO.

Ben

[26th-Z]

You can't use Bristol as an example!!!! Nice try. :knockedou But not the same situation. And "roughly" doesn't count either :classic: I completely accept your view concerning a marketing sales ploy, Alan. F is used with a stretch of the imagination, isn't it? BTW, where the hell have you been? I wrote Len asking about you.

The F restoration cars represent a unique chapter in the story of the 240Z. I took the chance to visit PierreZ when I was in California. I didn't get a chance to see Les Canaday's place. Just looking at the shop gives you an idea of what happened and how well the cars were restored. Evidently, Pierre took the cars apart and the body shells were prepared at another shop. As the painted bodies returned, Pierre et al reassembled each car in Pierre's shop not more than one or two at a time. Pierre assembled the engine / transmission with the sub frame / front suspension on a stand and lowered the car on it using the lift. I saw pictures of cars covered in foam padding for protection while they were hand assembled. Pierre said that Nissan had a lot of trouble coming up with parts. There are pictures of many cars, some with a/c, wheels, and one custom built for the editor of AutoWeek magazine. There is also a record of news briefs, press releases and show events surrounding the affair. For the collector market, these cars represent a restoration standard. I can't believe there isn't a regestry.

It is a shame how things get disjointed and interpreted incorrectly. Just last month, "Roundel" magazine's Mark Calabrese reported that Albrecht designed the 240Z in his discussion of all the cool cars he has owned. Just a shame.

[HS30-H]

You can't use Bristol as an example!!!!

WHY NOT?

I repeat - Bristol Cars Ltd have been buying back cars from customers and the used car trade, completely restoring them in their own factory, and then selling them through their own showroom and sales network for many years. What part of that do you not understand? If that does not trump the Nissan project then why not?

Anyone claiming that the NMC USA project was a "World first" has just got to be cracked ( or a politician ).

I invite you to think of that "Factory Restoration" quote from the viewpoint of my old friend and drinking partner Mr Tsukamoto, who actually worked on the S30-series Z production line ( yeah - in JAPAN ). I think he'd be rather nonplussed at the gauche way the word "Factory" is being used.

Is this just an American perspective thing? Can you not imagine how silly and inaccurate the descriptions of the NMC USA resto project sound to anyone outside the Z collector / enthusiast loop? I'll take you to the Bristol cars showroom here in London, and invite you to explain to the sales staff there just how ".....a manufacturer had never purchased cars for resale through its own sales facilities."

And "roughly" doesn't count either :classic: I completely accept your view concerning a marketing sales ploy, Alan. F is used with a stretch of the imagination, isn't it?

Why not "roughly"? If other manufacturers have been doing roughly the same thing in their own different way then I think it has relevance to the discussion. RR, Bentley, Aston Martin and others have all undertaken variations on the same theme in the past. Bristol Cars are STILL doing it, and in an arguably 'purer' way. All the talk about the Nissan project makes it sound as though its a total and complete world first, which is bullshit.

Of course it was a sales / marketing exercise ( a very good one ) - who said it was anything else?

"Factory Restoration" a stretch of the imagination? Stretch of credibility more like. This is the kind of thing that makes us all look silly.

BTW, where the hell have you been? I wrote Len asking about you.

You'll see even less of me on this forum if you keep coming up with sub-Beck nonsense like this. Is there something being piped into Florida's water? I ask again, why does the Bristol example not count? Is it because they actually DID and DO restore the cars in their own Factory?

The F restoration cars represent a unique chapter in the story of the 240Z.

But they categorically DO NOT represent a unique chapter or world first in the story of the automobile or the automobile industry.

I took the chance to visit PierreZ when I was in California. I didn't get a chance to see Les Canaday's place. Just looking at the shop gives you an idea of what happened and how well the cars were restored. Evidently, Pierre took the cars apart and the body shells were prepared at another shop. As the painted bodies returned, Pierre et al reassembled each car in Pierre's shop not more than one or two at a time. Pierre assembled the engine / transmission with the sub frame / front suspension on a stand and lowered the car on it using the lift. I saw pictures of cars covered in foam padding for protection while they were hand assembled. Pierre said that Nissan had a lot of trouble coming up with parts. There are pictures of many cars, some with a/c, wheels, and one custom built for the editor of AutoWeek magazine. There is also a record of news briefs, press releases and show events surrounding the affair. For the collector market, these cars represent a restoration standard. I can't believe there isn't a regestry.

I agree that the cars were restored to a fantastic standard, and I take my hat off to the private businesses that were contracted by NMC USA to undertake the work. I'm NOT dissing the cars or the people that restored them, and I still think the project was a stroke of marketing genius; the column inches and publicity they got from it represented a huge return over whatever they spent.

But it was NOT a world first however way you look at it. Try wriggling out of that argument with semantics or twisting the story, but it won't wash outside the USA.

It is a shame how things get disjointed and interpreted incorrectly. Just last month, "Roundel" magazine's Mark Calabrese reported that Albrecht designed the 240Z in his discussion of all the cool cars he has owned. Just a shame.

Its probably too late to eliminate the Goertz bullshit ( we seem to have at least one Goertz lie in the UK automotive press every month ) but if we aren't careful we will have more myths to contend with in the future; this "Factory Restoration" talk is total nonsense that should have been nipped in the bud. I ask again, where did it start and who started it?

All it does is make Z enthusiasts / historians look stupid.

[gruvyz]

Wow,

You guys have WAY too much time on your hands to discuss this "factory" thing this deep & long. Look, I and many other Z lovers only know one thing. The manufacturer, Nissan, ran this program. They bought these cars and they were restored to Nissan's standards, and if anyone had availability and money to do a beautiful restoration, who better than the original manufacturer. So who REALLY cares about the inference to whether or not they were actually done in Nissan's factory! I have only owned Datsun Z cars since I got my driver's license, (except for my 130,000 mile pickup) and just about all of my Zs got driven, and most of them had a little rust. I am very excited to own this Z, one which is as close to "factory" new as possible. Thank you Nissan for giving me confidence in a great value in this restored car. And once again, I really don't care about what these cars are worth. Datsun Z's are very special with a lot of people for many reasons, the biggest being these cars were the everyday man's sports car! So nobody get offended if you see a brand new looking 72 driving down the road with new panasports & yokahama rubber and a really nice radio, since the car doesn't even have the A/M radio. I did not buy this car to sit with it's hub caps in storage. It will get its 2000 miles a year for the next 40 years, & I hope with me behind the wheel! Thanks, Dave

[gundee]

Thats the way to look at it Dave. No trailer queens! Drive it and drive it lots. Don't save the car for the next owner like a lot of people do. To hell with the next owner!

[HS30-H]

Wow,

You guys have WAY too much time on your hands to discuss this "factory" thing this deep & long. Look, I and many other Z lovers only know one thing. The manufacturer, Nissan, ran this program. They bought these cars and they were restored to Nissan's standards, and if anyone had availability and money to do a beautiful restoration, who better than the original manufacturer. So who REALLY cares about the inference to whether or not they were actually done in Nissan's factory!

Thanks, Dave

gruvyz,

What's wrong with discussing this subject "deep & long"? If you are going to be a regular participant, then you will - hopefully - start to understand that deep & long discussions, by people with "WAY too much time" on their hands, are the lifeblood of a forum like this. When people cannot be bothered to reply, or even be bothered to post in the first place, is when you should worry............

You asked:

"....who REALLY cares about the inference to whether or not they were actually done in Nissan's factory!"

Well, as you can probably tell from my posts - I care. If you are going to throw the word 'Factory' around freely then you really ought to think deep & long about what it means, and what you are inferring by using it in connection with your car. Your car was restored by an American specialist restoration company on behalf of NMC USA. That's a quite different thing to being restored "by the original manufacturer".

I like to ask your opinion on a related subject; A couple of years ago, Nissan UK decided that they would like to have a good example of a UK-market HS30 "240Z" of their own - to use as a promotional tool. They looked around in the UK for a car to buy, and contracted the services of a Z specialist here to undertake the restoration for them. They supplied the funding and sourced some of the parts for the project.

Now, other than the fact that this car was never destined to be sold to the general public, and was not part of a 'program' or well publicised advertising project, how is it any different to your car?

Are you going to call this car a "Factory Restored" car too? I'm very eager to hear your answer, and any comments from anybody else..............

I attach a photo of the car in question. It was taken on the Nissan UK stand at the Goodwood Festival of Speed.

I applaud your intention to use your car and enjoy it.

Alan T.

[v12horse]

Hi Alan,

Is the Z that you have pictured the one that has been in all the British Classic car mags? It is a beautiful car. The Minilites look just right, and If I remember correctly, it had the nice rear spoiler too.

I have been watching this thread and I agree with you Alan. People are not taking this as serious as they should. Vicky said that her car and others were part of the "Nissan Vintage Z Pre-Owned Vehicle" program, and this is what we should refer to them as. It is easy to use the term "Factory restored" just because it is short and sweet, but it is a falacy that should not continue because people may get the wrong idea later on; they did and still do about the Goertz myth. Stop arguing and stop the "Factory" saying. Lets keep the Zcar history straight because there is enough people saying bull about Z history that is untrue.

BTW, I think the "Nissan Vintage Z Pre-Owned Vehicle" program vehicles are great cars. I have seen one in person before and it was gorgeous. I am not dogging the cars at all, nor do I think this changes their value. Just as Vicky said, hers has gone up in value immensly since the date of purchase. These cars are a stepping stone in Z history, but lets describe them as Nissan would because word of mouth can turn into facts to some.

p.s. This is my opinion, and a very strong one. I hope many of you agree.

Ben

[v12horse]

Dave, congradulations on your purchase. We want to see pictures of your beauty. There are two of these magnificent cars in the club now, no? It is possible to drive a Z quite a lot and keep it prestine. I.e. Kats car. He said he drove it 12000 miles in the last 4 years. I think. Correct me if I am wrong Kats.

Take care,

Ben

[HS30-H]

Hi Ben,

Thanks for your support on this point. It seems like pointless nitpicking to some, I know - but people have already misunderstood the situation and ( as I mentioned before ) some journalists in the past have already written that the cars were sent back to Japan!

If nobody stands up for clarification of the facts then its the start of the slippery slope. This is how myth becomes legend.

Thanks too for confirming that some Americans at least will have heard of Bristol Cars Ltd ( and not just their engines ). I'm still waiting for 26th-Z to tell me why Bristol don't count as an example of auto manufacturers who have bought back, restored and re-sold their own product...........

My thanks to Vicky for quoting NMC USA's description of the "Nissan Vintage Z Pre-Owned Vehicle" program. Its especially good to hear this from an owner of one of these cars. I'll try to remember and use that description for these cars in future.

Ben,

Yes indeed, the car in the photo is the very one that has been loaned to journalists here in the UK for magazine articles, and has been used on Nissan UK's show stands at several events.

Its on the cover of the Sept. edition of Practical Classics magazine. The journalist quotes the designer as Goertz again......

More pics of the car:

[v12horse]

Hi Alan,

Thanks for the photos. I see your pain on this topic. Anyways, I saw the Z barn rally car in the back there. I bought a retro cars mag with that car in it because that car has a great stance. That is one of the nicer 240z's that I have seen in magazines. I really like the eight spoke enkei's.

Take care,

Ben

[HS30-H]

Hi Ben,

Mr Duncan Pearcey of The Z Farm built both cars ( and drives the rally car himself too ).

As far as I understand it, Nissan UK paid for the restoration of the car and sourced some of the parts from the USA and Japan. Duncan also supplied some NOS and good used parts from his own stock. I'm very interested to hear what people think of this car, and indeed what it can be classified as ( seeing as Nissan UK commissioned the job ).

Another pic from the Nissan stand at Goodwood for you: