...As a final question:

Which would carry more value: a(n) NMC Vintage Z restoration or an all original unrestored historically correct S30?

This is a great question that can only be answered by opinions I believe. Even though I own a NMC Vintage Z I would think that an "all orginal unrestored historically correct S30" would be of more value but not by much. This unrestored Z would have to be just as if it had been in a time capsule. Absolutely perfect. The value would be that it has been "preserved" and well maintained. The Vintage Z would be hard to beat as I believe, and this is just my opinion, that these cars have been "re-assembled" to much better specifications. I have a inch thick manual called the "240Z Restoration Program Quality Control Checklist" that is simply amazing. The detail is beyond belief on what each one of thes cars went through. This manual should be the standard for which all fine automobiles are restored.

Vicky

Vicky, would you mind perhaps scanning a page or two of the more interesting points they make in the manual? I know I'm intrigued! Outside the US these cars are unheard of to most. It would be interesting to see just how finicky the restorations were.

Reckon you could do that for us?

and this is just my opinion, that these cars have been "re-assembled" to much better specifications.

Could you please expand on this? Did they change the weight distribution or wheelbase length? Perhaps they repositioned the e-brake lever so it was in the right place for a LHD car?

It just seems an odd thing to me, that's all. To be honest, to me it sounds along the lines of "because they were "re"-assembled/"restored" in the US of A they're better than when Japan initially made the cars." Perhaps that's just me though reading things a little wrong and automatically tacking on the general American arrogance to the statement. By all means though, correct me if I'm wrong, expand and explain. :classic:

Which would carry more value: a(n) NMC Vintage Z restoration or an all original unrestored historically correct S30?

daddz,

Good question, and I'm glad you brought it up.

If by "S30" you mean a Fairlady Z or Fairlady Z-L, then I can tell you that the very best examples of these models can and already do command higher sale prices than any of the NMC USA project restored cars. The big point is that this happens in Japan - not the USA ( so I guess it might not qualify as relevant? ). It also tends to happen privately between the two parties ( not on Ebay, in the back of a magazine, or on a Dealer sales lot ).

We even have cars that have changed hands for extremely high prices here in the UK. Translate those prices into Dollars and you might be very surprised.

Naturally, the best examples of the rarer models will change hands for bigger money. For this you have to look to Japan. Excellent Z432 models regularly change hands for big money, and when Z432-R models change hands the price can be stratospheric in Z terms.

I had a serious offer a couple of years ago from Japan to buy my ZG. Price offered was £17,500 ( work that out in US Dollars at current exchange rates ). I turned it down. I would not be able to replace it for that kind of money.

The market dictates the prices, and anything is only "worth" what somebody is willing to pay. Think of it in World market terms and the USA is actually one of the cheaper places in the world to buy a good car.

Could you please expand on this? Did they change the weight distribution or wheelbase length? Perhaps they repositioned the e-brake lever so it was in the right place for a LHD car?

:classic: :classic: :classic: :paranoid:

If only she hadn't said 'specifications.' Oh well.

Back when this program was in its heyday I read a brochure put out by a paint company(cant remember which) that described how the cars were being re-assembled better than original due to modern tires, better brake pad/shoe compounds and because it was the paint companys brochure, better prep/primer/paint than original. Basically the fit and finish of the car is better than original.

I knew what Vicky meant. Must be that crazy English language again.

Chris

If only she hadn't said 'specifications.' Oh well.

Gosh, what was I thinking I'm not going to get into a "war of the words" over these cars. Thanks ChrisA for understanding what I meant.

I have no scanner so that's out. This particular checklist was on a website and available for download awhile back. I will try and find it so others can see the process and detail.

Vicky

Vicky, I, too, understood what you meant. But based on other things I've read on this site, I also expected the comments that followed.

...that's just me though reading things a little wrong and automatically tacking on the general American arrogance to the statement. By all means though, correct me if I'm wrong, expand and explain. :classic:

You are wrong. Wrong to lump all Americans into a category. If you had simply asked Vicky to "expand and explain" instead of being insulting then...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I automatically tacked on the general Kiwi racist attitude to your statement. :mad:

Chris

But based on other things I've read on this site, I also expected the comments that followed.

Is this comment directed at one particular individual, or a group of individuals, or even a nationality?

If you're pissed off with something, then get it out in the open. I don't personally see that the mention of "American arrogance" was aimed at a particular person. More a kind of generality based on the perceptions that people outside the USA sometimes have. They don't come from nowhere.

This is a site dedicated to a Japanese car. Sometimes the chat here makes me believe that "American car, made in Japan" quote is really taken to heart in the USA. That's an example of what people like me see as "American arrogance".

We should all bear in mind what others might find 'insulting'. Personally speaking, I found the inappropriate use of the word "Factory" somewhat insulting to the memory of the people who designed and built the cars originally, but I don't see any chance of an apology in the near future. On the contrary, it seems I'm an "asshole" for taking issue with it.

Is this comment directed at one particular individual, or a group of individuals, or even a nationality?

If you're pissed off with something, then get it out in the open. I don't personally see that the mention of "American arrogance" was aimed at a particular person. More a kind of generality based on the perceptions that people outside the USA sometimes have. They don't come from nowhere.

This is a site dedicated to a Japanese car. Sometimes the chat here makes me believe that "American car, made in Japan" quote is really taken to heart in the USA. That's an example of what people like me see as "American arrogance".

We should all bear in mind what others might find 'insulting'. Personally speaking, I found the inappropriate use of the word "Factory" somewhat insulting to the memory of the people who designed and built the cars originally, but I don't see any chance of an apology in the near future. On the contrary, it seems I'm an "asshole" for taking issue with it.

Dont know what to say. You've proven yourself and your point very well. Any clear thinking individual can see that.

Nobody pissed here but you apparently.

Chris