Ripped off?

[Alfadog]

Mike no offence but Anti Leech code is only gonna stop the naive computer user. If it can be viewed it can be saved. It becomes a bit harder if it's encoded inside something like a flash file or director file etc.

You might be surprised! I wonder how many people here would actually know how to steal one of those images... that said, those who can make a webpage SHOULD know how to use paint well enough to steal an image. So in actual fact it's mainly just stopping the average user. The ones who like to save pictures onto their hard drive on their home computer for future reference. The ones who aren't plagiarising anything. The innocent ones.........

Perhaps this anti-leech stuff aint so flash afterall? Hmm... :cross-eye

[HS30-H]

Oh... my... God! You guys aren't serious are you?? I had no idea I'd kicked off all of this by collecting a few photos in my gallery on the SAME website as they originally appeared!?

...and would you believe I'm an Intellectual Property lawyer? :classic:

P.S: I wish I got this sort of response when I posted threads in the "Help" and "Engine" related discussions! i.e. when I need people to use their powers for good, not evil :devious:

Moyest,

I don't know about anybody else, but I'm serious. Why should I just shrug and let people misappropriate images I made and posted to this site?

The whole point of posting them to this site is so that they can be enjoyed by other like-minded people ( both members and visitors to this site ), but that does not mean that people should think its a free-for-all for them to take and use what they want and how they want.

I know that all is now sweetness and light between yourself and RB30-ZED, but I still don't understand why you copied photos from his gallery and put them in your own. Surely this is a great recipe for confusion and misunderstanding, let alone anything else? Exactly the same thing happened to me, and the member that re-posted the photos didn't seem to get the irony of the situation.

All the legal talk is - of course - academic if nobody wants to follow it through. However, I think there is the matter of politeness and common sense to take into account too. Surely anybody who downloads photos from websites realises that there will likely be issues with 're-publishing' them? Whenever I see any of my own photos being used without permission, I usually - at the very least - try to make the point to the person or site involved. Sometimes it has the desired effect and sometimes it does not, but I don't see why I would be best advised ( as some people seem to be saying ) to sit back and treat it as inevitable, and quit "whining"........

And moyest, I really don't understand your final comment. What is "evil" about discussing an issue like this? I don't get it. As far as I can see, protecting the site and its contents is a subject worth discussion( yes - even from its own members, as there are members here who have taken images of mine and are still using them on their own private websites ).

If you did not get the required answers to questions you posted in the "HELP" or "ENGINE" sections, then maybe you would like to post them again or just ask them in a different way on the same thread? I don't see this as an issue of 'good' or 'evil'. I think the members of this site are very helpful and will offer advice or data if they think it is relevant and / or of possible help.

Alan T.

[Bambikiller240]

You don't seem to have noticed ( or remembered ) that you were giving flack to people for discussing the subject in the first place. Didn't you say this was "off topic"?

I do notice AND remember. I do still feel it is "off topic" since this isn't a legal issues web forum. Relevant? Only "somewhat". Especially since it's up to each person to choose to protect their own property, or not; and to deal with offenders. The way that is accomplished is by contacting the offenders, not complaining to the general public, IMHO. You will let me have my opinion won't you? Please, Please, Pretty Please

[HS30-H]

Carl,

I already have - and continue to - chase up people or organisations that use images of mine without my permission. In fact, I'm currently waiting for a reply from a member of this site who I contacted just before this thread started. Frankly, I don't really expect an answer or a favourable result - but that will not stop me from making the point to him.

You seem to be focusing mainly on complaining about the 'legalese' part of this thread, but this is only one aspect of the subject. Nevertheless, the legal issues are an important factor when it comes to confronting people who think they can walk off with something that belongs - at least morally - to this site. In my opinion, if you let it go then it can be the start of a slipperly slope. Pretty soon the identities of members and the identity of the site itself could be at risk. You might think that an exaggeration at this point in time, but - presumably - you close your windows and lock your front door when you leave your home just like I do. We ought to be vigilant here too.

In the case of this thread, the misunderstanding / dispute was between two sensible and polite members of the club, and is now resolved. It is a case that we can all learn from and point to as reference in the future. Other cases are not so simple - like when somebody takes photos from here and posts them on another site as their own - and I wish they were as easy to solve.

Discussing this issue is - I think - relevant to this site and our participation / membership of it. If that is not "on topic" then I don't know what is. I think it was reassuring to see Mike's statement regarding the site copyright, and this allows people like myself - who are chasing up people behind the scenes - to act with the knowledge that taking these images - and anything else - from the site is frowned on by the management / owner of the site, and by ( many / some of? ) the members of the site.

Alan T.

[Mr Camouflage]

Yes Carl,

I'm just WHINING.

I don't know why I bother posting on this site anymore.

Me either. First time back, for a while and people are still having a go at people for expressing their opinions.

So Carl you ment everyone except Alan? Maybe if you had anything worth ripping off you would understand his point of view.

No whining! What's whining? If someone has a different point of view than you. Since when is this the classic z carl site. Why is your opinion more important that any other members opinion? If you dont like people whining, as you call it, dont read the thread. it's that simple.

I'm outa here, and i'm not comming back for a very long time.

And as far as making this site so the photos cant be downloaded, it hasnt even been attempted.

[240znz]

So in actual fact it's mainly just stopping the average user. The ones who like to save pictures onto their hard drive on their home computer for future reference. The ones who aren't plagiarising anything. The innocent ones.........

What a crying shame but you are right Alfadog!

I have no problem admitting that I have downloaded images from peoples galleries to my hard drive. Is that morally wrong? Have I offended anyone? I am just gathering images of Zeds that I really like. I also use these images offline when I'm stuck on some detail of my car. I'm not selling them nor am I posting them anywhere....just sorry that I'm so normal. What if the site goes tomorrow.....I'm left with zip......does that help anyone?

So I guess the only way (I'm not a tecko savvy kinda guy) that I will be able to obtain images on my hard drive is to PM the owner of pic from his gallery. I'll just have to do that in future....I'm sure no one will mind.

What a crying shame!

[sjcurtis]

This is a very complexed issue. I to fall into the category of filling my hard drive with pictures for personal use. I feel that everything I have "captured" is fair. I take great pleasure in finding that picture of a production variation in components listed on auction in 'J'.

I must say I would not willingly display anothers so called digital property in the public arena without expressed permission and identification. any other way is

cheers

Steve

[mperdue]

Hello everyone! I'd like to preface this post with a big 'shout-out' and thanks to the illustrious admin of this beloved site, without whom this discussion wouldn't even be possible. I think we should each take a few moments each day to turn our thoughts to the guy behind the curtain as they say, the one who makes it happen, the MAN WITH THE PLAN - of course I'm referring to Mike - the PHP wizard of classiczcars.com. Again thanks Mike for making this all happen for us members and the thousands of guests whose lives are geared up a notch each time they visit this place that some of us may even call home.

[panchovisa]

Seems to me that this forum has gone from discussing one particular on-site incidence, to other instances of members photos being "lifted", to copyrights in general, to copyrights regarding "our" images, to site policies.

When does the discussion begin regarding tech articles and images lifted from other sources that appear here? Seems that protection must work both ways.

[panchovisa]

I just deleted three images from my gallery of race cars I got somewhere else. I know one of the pictures I deleted is in at least one other members gallery (doesn't matter who, so don't ask).

Just thought it was the right thing to do.

[texasz]

Many, many, MANY good points have been made here and this is quite the lively thread. Much of this has to do with one's own opinion of what's acceptable and what is not...all legality aside.

Something that has been mentioned and is quite true is that if you post anything to the web (in this case) it can and likely will be copied. You should consider this beforehand. Now we also know that we are proud of our Z cars and this is one reason we post pix, the other is for reference of one sort or another. I have a huge collection of information that has been gathered by myself and others which I have made available to the public as reference and to provide assistance to others. Credit has been given where I know the source of the information (btw, if you see something on my site that you 'own' and credit has not been given pelase let me know). The only reason I share the info is for the greater good of the Z community. Some of the information may otherwise become lost which would be a loss to the entire community.

On the other hand in an event like the clock that has been described or where someone is in any way attempting to take credit for something that was not their's this is wrong; also where someone alters or misuses the picture to create an unflattering situation (i.e. take a picture of a person and crop their face onto a nude). No question, it's just wrong. When this occurs it is up to the owner of said information/picture to take action if they choose.

We should all think hard about what is considered acceptable though. As it has been mentioned there are some blatent violations of copywrite on this site where many of us have copied pages from a book, magazine, or service article and posted it here to help another member. This is what I was talking about above where the intent is only to provide assistance and reference to others in the Z community. However, we all know that this is illegal to do in the case of a these publications.

I have learned a bit from this thread, and thanx to Alfadog for pointing out something to me. I must aplogize for making what I said in my previous post sound like fact when it was in truth opinion. As I understand it this is the kind of comment that has sparked a few recent problems and I never ment for it to sound like I had researched it when I had not. I have gone back and edited that post to indicate that the info was only opinion.

[panchovisa]

TexasZ, so if the ends justify the means?