Getting the C110 to handle

[khughes]

Hi Guys,

just wondering, a lot of the articles i have read reviewing the C110, said that it had understeering problems.

just wondering what any of you have done to improve the handling in the 240k?

i know noltec and whiteline make some nolethane bushes, but does anybody make swaybars, etc..

all i can comment at the moment is that mine handles like it has no wheels (for good reason too:D)

[440k]

G'day Kent. I've been following your progress with great interest.

With the RB30DET unde the bonnet, you won't need handling (j/k)

The 240K can be made to handle very well, using much the same principles as the Datto 1600. The secret, as with most cars, is to get the geometries right (camber, castor, toe) and then keep them there (with the right bushes, mounts, etc.). Things like strut braces will help a little, as will seam welding the engine bay, and rollcages (of course, that depends how serious you want to get).

If the suspension is done right, then you'll get the most out of a decent set of R spec rubber. Don't fall for the hype of needing big 18" rubber for handling. A good set of 15" wheels and tyres will give better handling than a set of 18's with "cheap" (although probably still dearer than the 15's) tyres every time.

Sorry for the general nature of the response, but don't let anyone tell you that the 240k can't be turned into a great handler.

With the heavy lump of an RB under your bonnet, any weight you can move to the back of the car will also reduce the understeer

[The C110]

Dunno if it will help, but whiteline make swaybars for the 240k [as i was abt to buy one the other week]. With this in mind it may be fair to assume that they make other bits specific to the 240k too...

In my brief exchange with the suspension guy who informed me of the whiteline swaybars, he reccomended some front camber adjusters [k-mac possibly?]. Koni adjustables or bilsteins would be the way to go in terms of dampers obviously, but dependant on your budget. Not sure if your aware, but its pretty easy to modify the front struts on a 240k to turn them into coil-overs...Hope any of that helps,

Tom

[khughes]

Thanks 440K, i had imagined that the 240k couldn't have been too bad considering it's sophistication at the time! i will start cheking out some 1600 sites for handling tips

great to hear that you are following our adventures i must admit not alot has happened in the last 2 months, unfortunately uni commitments have been more than expected recently.. hopefully there may be some more big news to report after this weekend!!

fortunately i have been around modded cars enough to know that bigger isn't always better (well atleast for wheels ). it is just the rest of the suspension that is a bit of black magic to me so far.. though that i am sure will change across the life of the project!

thanks C110, i will check out the whiteline, kmac etc. sites now, we already have height adjustable coil overs (not damper adjustable unfortunately), they were C210 struts, modified and fitted into the C110, so atleast we are a little bit ahead

[Alfadog]

If you guys find anything good, please post it I'll be doing some suspension stuff soon and have little to no experience with it all, so it would be brilliant to get some good advice

[kyteler]

I actually thought my C110 handled not too badly, the I converted from Auto to Manual.. big change in suspension feel. So more recently I changed to Low Kings with new KYB's on the front (will do the back later) and it's made a significant improvement, next on my list will be some Dunlop FM901's @ either 205 or 215 (on the front, bigger on the back )

[440k]

Kent.

The basic principle of suspension is to keep the maximum tyre contact patch on the road at all times, and minimise weight transfer of the car. Pretty simple, right?

Static suspension settings (camber, castor, etc.) are not ideal for achieving this while the car is stationary (Not that this matters a toss anyway). However, when the car is moving, and the tyres / suspension is loaded, the deflection in the suspension components brings everything into the "optimum" position (in an ideal world). We need to set up the geometry to allow for the movement in the suspension, but control it all so there isn't too much movement to throw everything out of whack again.

Camber is used to get a cornering tyre to sit flat on the road under load. Suspension geometry is generally set up to try and maintain this camber as much as possible. Chassis stiffening is used to keep the chassis rigid, and let all movement be controlled by the suspension. Dampers are used to slow down oscillation of the body (minimise weight transfer, and geometry changes through suspension bump / rebound) and wheels (keep tyres in contact with the road).

There have been lots of discussions at the Ozdat forums, specially the "Datsports adjustable rear X member? Any good?" thread in the Tutorials / FAQ section. (NB YOU WILL HAVE TO REGISTER TO ACCESS THIS AREA)

It's got some pretty hardcore suspension discussion, and a few good recommendations. I know that a lot of what I've said is basic and common sense, but when you think of suspension this way, you realise that almost everything you do to enhance a car's suspension is designed to optimise the factors I've mentioned. You soon start to realis that 5 deg of camber may look cool, but really doesn't achieve squat in a road car.

Then there's the evil we like to call "real world conditions". Road camber, rain, potholes, undulations, etc. A race car is nice on a billiard table racetrack, but put it onto a corrugated suburban street and watch them back into a telegraph pole. Road car suspension is all about compromise.

Finally, remember that you are more likely to win a race in a car which has predictable handling, and communicates its every movement to the driver, than a twitchy car with strotospheric cornering limits, but gives no feedback as to what it's doing.

Hope this (very general response) helps.

[g72s20]

Here's a pic of Ray Fergusons (AKA Prince in forums) KPGC110 with RB20 .

The sway bar is yellow, SELBYS suspension, popular during the '70's was all yellow. Perhaps Ray has found an aftermarket selbys bar for his '70's Skyline? He may be able to help further.

I pinched the pic from an early Skylines thread over at Skylines Australia, thanks Ray.

Jim.