New to Z's

[eob]

Hi all,

First of all, I'd like to say well done on the site. It's well laid out and there can never be enough Z sites. With the 350z on the way, it should be up and running smoothly for a new generation of Z owners.

Why this thread? Well, I want to buy a Z. I'm tucked away in Ireland at the moment, and have been searching for different types for awhile, almost importing a blue 260z last year.

But anyway, I have a few stupid questions about the car in general, if anyone could answer them for me:

1: In your opinion in terms of looks/speed/cred which Z is best among the 240/260/280? Were all the versions just 2 seaters or were there 2+2's aswell?

2: Perspex lens covers, I've seen them about quite a bit and I think they do lots for the car (E-Type jag look, infact the designer of the Z designed the E-Type too I think?) Are these covers hard to fit? Where can they be bought?

3: The cars achilles heel? What is it? Is it rust or are there other parts that need to be upgraded? Brakes for example? Is there a simple brake conversion where you can swop bigger brakes across from another similar car?

4: Engine options? What are they?

5: Cars in the UK or Eire? Where can I get one and which would you buy?

Thanks in advance.

[ZmeFly]

1: In your opinion in terms of looks/speed/cred which Z is best among the 240/260/280? Were all the versions just 2 seaters or were there 2+2's aswell?

i think the 240 wins hands down. it was also the fastest car nissan put out of the z line till 1990

there were 2+2versions of the 260 and the 280

2: Perspex lens covers, I've seen them about quite a bit and I think they do lots for the car (E-Type jag look, infact the designer of the Z designed the E-Type too I think?) Are these covers hard to fit? Where can they be bought?

imo i think they make the car look great also helping to reduce drag. they can be bought at www.motorsport.com

3: The cars achilles heel? What is it? Is it rust or are there other parts that need to be upgraded? Brakes for example? Is there a simple brake conversion where you can swop bigger brakes across from another similar car?

it would have to most definetly be rust. thats the biggest thing. there is a simple break conversion it is the toyota 4piston caliper upgrade. it is the best. and of course after time all suspension parts if they havent been taken care of will need replacement and or upgrade

4: Engine options? What are they?

you need to go to http://www.geocities.com/zgarage2001/z.html it will answer all your questions and also give you great ideas for performance and lots more

5: Cars in the UK or Eire? Where can I get one and which would you buy?

that one i cant answer i hope ive helped somewhat

james

[Dan]

Like Zmefly said the 240 wins the style race with no problem. After 78 IMO Z's began to lose their classic feel. However mechanically they improved as parts became stronger and engines put out more HP. The good thing about owning an early Z is that it is possible to mix and match parts from various years and come up with a car that will smoke anything comparable.

I didn't know that the team that designed the Z had a hand in the E-Type. I'm no car historian but i thought the E-Type came out a few years before the Fairlady and 240.

As far as engine options go many people swap the L-24 found in the 240 for a later L-28, but this is not necessary to have a fun and fast car. I have the lens covers on my 240 and i agree that they lend the car a classic look in the same vein as the E-Type and 250 GTO.

In colder wetter climes rust is a factor but i think that's true of any car thats in it's third decade. A parts source may be a problem where you live. I would think that there aren't many early Z's in Ireland, so shipping will be something that you will have to deal with. However if you don't mind that MSA here in California can get you just about anything you need for an early Z project. Hope that helps and welcome to the CLASS.

[eob]

Perfect. I knew there were 2+2 versions of the Z, I just wasn't sure which ones. The reason I'm asking is this. In Ireland, if you own a car 25 years or older the you can insure it for 25 punts (about $32) a year. BUT, if it's a 2 seater sports car then this doesn't apply and it's judged by capacity. So a 240Z would cost about $600 to tax!!

A man called Albrecht Goertz designed the Z, I read somewhere he had something to do with the E-Type, though i doubt it considering he's a German and he designed the BMW 507 (pick up a picture of the 507 and you'll see the similarity, and the beauty) It's pretty well understood that the Z borrows an awful lot in design terms from the E-Type and the 507, back then Japan just copied what Europe, making it more reliable and more practical if losing some of the spirit in the process, but it's not mentioned much how copied in concept the Z is afterwards. Ask someone about early Japanese sports cars and they'll rattle off some rubbish about the Honda S200 (great car), but really the Z did things nobody would ever believe. It was a latter day Supra, and trounced German, European and American rivals in terms of reliability, as most of you know from driving them. They're tough, their parts are relatively unstressed, the only problem being rust as it was with any Datsuns/Toyotas/Nissans of that era.

Many cars coming after the Z followed it's formula to great effect. The Toyota Supra is basically a Z for the nineties.

The best thing for us though, but maybe sadly for the Z, is that it was such a huge success that they sold 1000's upon 1000's of them, which makes the car less valuable than it ought to be compared with Alfa-Romeo, Merc sport coupes of the same era. If a 1972 original 240Z had a Merc badge and only 10,000 existed, they'd be worth a small fortune.

Me, I want one very badly. I've been offered a few 260's and a gold 280 but really I'm searching for a decent 240. Due to the tax rule, if I could pick up a decent 2+2 260 I'd be very happy, but it's a long term plan at the moment.

Sorry for putting you to ZZZZZZZ

[Si|v3r72]

From ZHome.com

The Z Car Is Conceived!

Datsun had been building affordable and "sporty " cars since its beginning, however the early 60's brought with them the first true Sports Cars from Datsun. Introduced at the Tokyo Motor Show, Nissan released its first version of a modern two passenger, open roadster, the Datsun Fairlady 1500 in 1961.

The Fairlady 1500 was evolved over the following decade, turning into the Datsun 1600 Sports, and the Datsun 2000 Roadsters of the late 60's. By the late 60's the 1600 and 2000 had achieved some sales success in the U.S. and were on a par with the MG's and Triumphs of the day. They were however technologically behind the times, when compared to the 1963 Corvettes, Jag XKEs and 1964 Porsche 911's .

It was during this time ('61/'62) that NISSAN began to develop the idea of building a sports car that would enhance its image, and move it slightly upscale in the growing Sports Car market.

Enter Dr. Albrecht Graf von Goertz:

Dr. Goertz was a German born, U.S. Citizen, who had established himself as an Industrial Designer, with some automotive design experience. Dr. Goertz worked on the 1953 Studebaker Starline, then with BMW where he contributed to the design of the BMW 507. Next he worked with the Porsche team on the 911.

According to Dr. Goertz, he offered his services as an automotive design consultant to, and was in turn contracted by, NISSAN MOTORS OF JAPAN in 1963. His first assignment at NISSAN was to work on a Sports Coupe based on the Fairlady 1600 chassis. The project had been started, and it was given the model designation of CSP-311 and named the Silivia 1600 Sports Coupe. Introduced at the Tokyo Motor Show in 1964. It was also shown at the New York Motor Show in 1965. (Ed. Note - the Silivia Sports Coupe was shown once in the USA and shipped back to Japan, never to be imported into the North American market. Approximately 49 Silvia's made their way to Australia out of the 554 produced). It was not well received at the Exhibition by the US automotive press).

Dr. Goertz was then assigned to consult with a NISSAN team working on a sports car for the U.S. market. Nissan had a joint development agreement with Yamaha on this project. Yamaha was to develop the engine for the car as well as build the full size metal prototypes.

The Nissan team consisted of four designers and clay modelers who spoke very little English. One person specifically mentioned by Dr. Goertz was Mr. Kimura, who spoke a little English, and whom keep Dr. Goertz informed about the status of the car after Dr. Goertz left NISSAN in 1965.

When Yamaha's efforts, related to the design of a 2.0 Liter engine for this car did not meet NISSAN's expectaion, the project as shelved at NISSAN.

A metal prototype of that design was built by Yamaha. Dr. Goertz and Yamaha took the project to Toyota, and the result was the building of the Toyota 2000GT.

Dr. Goertz is, I believe, properly credited with helping the NISSAN design team establish design parameters related to the physical size and configuration of the Z Car. The fact that the Z Car would be a coupe, that held two American Size people in comfort and would be conceptually somewhere close to the Porsche 911 would, I believe, correctly outline Dr. Goertz's recommendations. (Given his statements on the subject - see his words to the Z Car Register in England in 1995.)

It would also seem reasonable to state that the Toyota 2000GT was in fact closer to the automotive design and styling that Dr. Goertz had a more direct influence in creating, than that of the final Z Car. While the more abstract concepts of a two passenger Sports/GT are shared by the Z Car and the Toyota 2000GT, the styling and execution of the two are quite different indeed.

Editors judgment - If the Goertz design had been produced by NISSAN, it would have been as big a flop as the Toyota 2000GT was from a marketing perspective. Goertz could therefore hardly be considered the "Father of the Z Car"... as wrongly attributed to him by "Car and Driver Mag". in 1980. However he did work as an automotive design consultant with the original NISSAN design team - contrary to a statement by a NISSAN official at that time, which was "he had nothing to do with the project". )

Re-enter Mr. Yutaka Katayama:

During the time between 1965 and 1968 Mr. Katayama, now President of Nissan Motors of USA, worked closely with the designers, stylists and engineers at NISSAN MOTORS OF JAPAN, championing the concepts and design criteria for cars aimed at the North American market , and lobbied for the resurrection of the Sports/GT design project within NISSAN.

Toyota released their 2000GT in 1965 and that set the stage for a reply from NISSAN. So the design project shelved in 1964 was resurrected in late 65 and a new design team was formed within NISSAN MOTORS OF JAPAN to work on the new Sports/GT Car Design Project.

Working for Mr. Tiichi Hara (the General Manager of Planning Dept. #2) and leading this new design team was Mr. Yoshihiko Matsuo (as Chief Designer). Mr. Tiichi Hara (who had total responsibility for the design and production aspects of the project) gave the official project file - started when the new design project was started - the designation "Nissan Design - Project Z" (losely translated...cjb), as all previous letters had been used. (the Goertz prototype was designated for example the "A550-X Project" ).

Mr. K. believed that a world class Sports/GT model would enhance the image of DATSUN in the U.S., and he wanted one aimed specifically at the U.S. Market. Youthful buyers, living in a country three thousand miles wide, and criss crossed by high speed super-highways. Mr. Katayama freely admits that he loved the flowing body lines of the Jaguar XKE, and made that clear to the NISSAN design team.

(Editors note - Dr. Goertz's recommendation to consider the Porsche 911 was also included in that teams considerations.)

1967 So Who Really Created The 1970 Datsun 240Z...

A team of Nissan Managers, Designers, Stylists and Engineers, working over a period of years, evolved the initial concept car from 1965 into the flowing form that wraps the performance platform of the 1970 Z Car.

The Nissan Design Team formed in 1967 was under the management control of Mr. Kazumi Yotsurnoto. The team that really produced the Z Car that we know today consisted of:

- Mr. Yoshihiko Matsuo (Chief Designer)

- Mr. Sue Chiba (Interior Design)

- Mr. Akio Yoshoda (Exterior Design)

- Mr. Hidemi Kamahara and Mr. Tsuneo Benitani (for engineering under the skin)

- Mr. Eiichi Oiwa and Mr. Kiichi Nishikawa (assistants)

- Mr. Tiichi Hara (responsible for total process of making Z Car and sole power to promote Z Car to come out of factory)

A design and finished product which is today recognized as a " Classic Automobile". The above Team and NISSAN Management should be given great credit for maintaining the Design Integrity of the car while getting it through the production process. This is not the usual case (as can today be seen in the Porsche Boxter )