Toyota 2000GT interest

[Alfadog]

Japan, again?!?? When you get the time, I'd love to see any more photos of anything (those little Galant GTO's are mean!) - all cars are interesting to me, and they all are on topic since they are vehicles and the Z is a vehicle too!!

[HS30-H]

.......Goetrz designed the A550X? If you consider Designing a car, flying over once every month or two from the USA, spending a couple of days chatting with the design team that actually designed these cars and built the scale models, they flying back home to the USA, then yes he designed the car.

Amen to that, Craig. Exactly.

Kazuo Kimura probably had more direct influence on the looks of the A550X than Goertz, and he had also penned most of the styling of the Silvia before Goertz even started his contract at Nissan.......

I spotted a Swiss-registered 2000GT at this year's Goodwood Revival meeting back in September. It was what I'd call semi race-prepped - with a fire extinguisher system, roll cage and lots of lock-wiring - although it wasn't participating in the race events themselves. It was parked up in the central Paddock area with some pretty cool company, so I presume it was the personal transport of one of the gentleman racers.

Some runabout!

Cheers,

Alan T.

[26th-Z]

Please correct me if I'm wrong but, wasn't the design of the 2000GT originally intended to be for the 240Z but was rejected by Nissan as being too expensive ???????????????

In my opinion, the 2000GT project was for a "sports car", not a "240Z". When you look at the time line of development with respect to each of the cars (2000GT, A550X, and 240Z) you can see a progression and of course similarities, but I view the development of the 240Z as an independent effort. My understanding is that Matsuo san began work with his team on a fairly vague set of criteria and that the initial proposal was a convertible. It might best be said that there is a correlation between the cars; each developed by a different design team. Essentially, Nissan was having some luck with the roadster and the corporation was growing to a size that was able to discuss the idea of marketing a world class sports car. Several teams of designers and engineers were involved over a number of years in what became a number of different cars. In other words, each of the three cars I sited responded to different design criteria and a different decision making process in their development. I credit Yoshihiko Matsuo as the chief designer of a team that developed the 240Z. Brian Long supports credit to Goertz for the A550X, but I see more of his influence in the Silvia. Actually, I give credit to Goertz for instigating full scale clay modelling at Nissan and little more. When we talk about these cars, it must be remembered that these are only the cars that made to the public. Many clays, mock-ups and design studies were made in addition to the cars we finally see. Brian Long suggests there was influence from the Prince R380 and the Nissan A680X, but Matsuo denies it. The writings of Fumio Yoshida discuss three different design teams (studios)responding to the vague "sports car" criteria in the early stages of what became the 240Z. Matsuo doesn't subscribe to it and indeed Yoshida's description shows the Matsuo team as the predominant team throughout the design process. I see about 9 separate prototypes of the 240Z over a period of about 4 years. I credit Yoshihiko Matsuo, Fumio Yoshida and Utsuki Chiba as the princple designers of the 240Z although I have seen the names Shitara and Kurisaki mentioned. I also have seen some information from Teiichi Hara about the various design development teams operating at the time. Matsuo tells a humorous story about how shocked he was to see the Maserati Ghibli - so similar to his latest development clay. Many writers use this comparison to express the European influence in the 240Z design. I say; "bunk". So my point is that there is no clearly defined lineage in my opinion. All these cars are related and very much part of the 240Z story, but one cannot simply apply one to another. It is my opinion that the S30 project was an independent design and resulted from a design criteria (or program) that matured from studies begining in late 1966.

[Mr Camouflage]

American bashing? :

Goertz was German. He just lived in America.

[sblake01]

Goertz was German. He just lived in America.

I wasn't referring to Goertz. That was just part of my rant (tongue-in-cheek) and it was in response to Alfadog's comment

-..."keep in mind it was written by American."

My only point was that I can enjoy these cars and reading about them without worrying about whether or not it's an on topic subject or who they were designed by.

[e_racer1999]

ah, never free of controversy, are we? haha, anyway, i can never get enought 2000gt... one of the few cars that (dare i say?) i would rather have as opposed to me z.....well, better yet, in addition to!

[sblake01]

Not controversy really, just opinion. Let's talk cars instead of getting even more 'off topic' by wondering if it's 'off topic.' Look at how much time has already been spent on that. It's nice to know who designed them but it's really of no use now except for the historical aspect which has been discussed to death.

[Alfadog]

Just to clarify myyyy intentions, that was not a snide statement! It was a joke, for Rick. I said:

...just make sure to keep in mind it was written by American! :cheeky:

The cheeky smilie is needed! We all know how Rick loves to tease you septics, I thought he would appreciate it. It does have an element of truth though - that the page is a BIT biassed.. but I wasn't meant to be "America-bashing". Ok, I'm done!

[sblake01]

Alfadog, I said that my rant was 'tongue-in-cheek' including the 'American bashing' comment. I didn't take it as snide. I was merely implying that by discussing whether or not this whole thread was 'off topic' we were getting more and more off topic. All I wanted to do was view more museum pictures.

[Alfadog]

Me too Stephen! I just thought I should clarify what I meant while everyone else was doing so

[1 Bravo 6]

Lachlan, me old china plate,

One thing that the majority of our Northern friends find hard to understand about us is our strange brand of humour. Carl, Victor and a few others are a wake up to us but you have to take it slow with the majority.

I'm another fan of the 2000GT however, if I could afford to buy one, I'd prefer to sink the cash into my Zed.

Hey, Lachlan, I don't suppose you'd have a photo of the Holden sports car that never got past the prototype stage ???. Can't remember what it was called but I recall seeing a pic of it some years ago.

Rick.

[g72s20]

It was called the "Holden GTR-X" Rick, I've got a sales brochure and assorted pics around here somewhere...I'll see what I can find, here ya go I snaffled these of a google image search, much easier!!

This thing was a fibreglass shelled car. I remember reading one of the reasons it was killed off was the release of the 240Z in Australia. They didn't believe it could compete price wise. Performance was no problem. A 3 litre triple Stromberg CD150 fed with a lumpy cam and real headers, and bugger all weight!....If only..

Jim.