Clear Hatch Glass

[26th-Z]

I'm starting a new thread from the ash tray thread. The topic drifted from ash trays to console face plates to heated rear hatch glass. I am looking for the plug that fills the console plate area for the rear glass demister switch and we got into a conversation about the model types that were delivered without heated glass.

Hi Alan, Happy Holidays

The whole idea of which Japanese model was used as a basis for the American HLS30U model fits into this conversation, indeed. There are a number of peculiar fitment examples, both pro and con, for the conversation. Initially, the first American import 240Zs did not have rear window demisters. My shipping bill does not list the option as I have seen it listed as standard equipment on later cars. They came with clear glass. Give me time to go out to the shop and check; I have the part number. When I bought 27, it arrived with a bunch of spare parts. One large box contained a brand new piece of clear hatch glass.

I can account for a number of early cars and have no idea when the part changed to the vertical lined demister glass. Here is what I know. Car #'s 16, 19, 20, 26, 27, 33, 40, 42, 52 and 95 have clear glass. Car 332 has clear glass, 279 does not. I think 793 has clear glass, but I'll have to check with the owner. #215 is on this site regularly. What say you, Mark?

The demister "wires" on the glass seem to be applied to etched glass. I have not had any luck scraping the wires off. Cars equipped with clear glass had that blanking plug in the console switch location. The wiring harness has the leads for the demister glass, but the plastic interior headliner panel does not have cutouts for the wire connection.

I can do a little more research on the subject and report back. I am always in the market for a piece of clear glass. And I have a brand new piece of vertical lined glass to sell or trade. :classic:

[HS30-H]

Hi Christopher,

Compliments of the season to you.

Thanks for starting a new thread, and my apologies to everyone for taking the other thread OT.

I thought it would be pertinent to bring these quotes from sblake01 and Zedrally from the other thread over here onto this new one:

I don't remember much about the 240Z's I owned when I was a young pup back in the 70s. But I do remember that the first one (1970) did not have a rear window defroster. (Alan T. does HRW=heated rear window?) Anyway, my question is at approximately what VIN was the HRW added on the US market cars? It was the second one sold by the dealership. (Pomona Valley Datsun-now long gone). Evidentally I had a very early car but back then I would have been totally clueless about the signifigance of that.

My 73 doesn't have a HRW. It's the first zed I've seen in Aus without one.

My original thoughts revolved around the rear hatch being replaced with non heater wire/whatever you call it glass.

However on closer inspection, there is no provision for the electrical contacts on the rear, nor is there a switch or provision in the harness. This has been blanked out.

On minute inspection of the glass, one can make out very faint vertical lines, which would correspond to the early model HRW, none the less they have been obliterated.

My conclusion is that this car was made up of any bits that where left over from the last of the RHD 240 production.

Any further thoughts?

MOM

[HS30-H]

And maybe relevant to this new thread would be my original post from the other:

Christopher,

Can I ask you if you have come to any conclusion regarding the 'missing' HRW ( defroster ) in the earliest of the HLS30U models?

You have in your post above noted the blanking plugs for the driving light & parking light switches. I suppose the driving / fog lights were always intended as 'Option' parts ( at least in most markets ) and the parking light switches were a Japanese-market necessity, but what about the HRW?

As you know, this was 'standard' equipment on the S30 and PS30 models, and an extra-cost 'option' on the S30S. Since the time you told me that your car had the clear ( non-HRW ) hatch glass, I have been wondering if this was a case of a cost-cutting decision on the spec of the HLS30U model that was very quickly reversed.

If all the early cars didn't have the HRW then I could understand the earliest of the HLS30Us not having them too ( due, for example, to something like holdups in supply ) but considering that the S30 and PS30 models were quite clearly fitted with them ( even at the Press preview event in October 1969 ) I wondered if you would agree that the HRW might have initially been left off of the spec for the HLS30U?

The HLS30U model at the Press preview event was quite clearly not fitted with the HRW, whilst the S30 and PS30 at the same event were. The blue HLS30U on the Nissan show stand at the Tokyo Auto Show ( labelled as a "Fairlady Z Export Model" ) was not fitted with the HRW, whilst the S30 and PS30 also on the show stand were. Interesting isn't it?

[HS30-H]

The whole idea of which Japanese model was used as a basis for the American HLS30U model fits into this conversation, indeed.

Eek!

Thinking like that might get you a personal 'interview' with the Tomas de Torquemada of the Z world

It seems that most of those early HLS30Us that you have seen had the clear ( non-Heated Rear Window ) hatch glass, and therefore it was most likely not a haphazard situation due to 'mistakes' or supply problems ( speculation on my part there ). However, as sblake01 and Zedrally have pointed out, these clear hatch glasses have turned up ( inexplicably? ) on later cars too, and I myself have seen two or three UK-market HS30s with clear hatch glass - which I put down to supply shortages or some other force majeure type situation. Who knows.

Big point for me was the thought that anyone looking at just the situation regarding the earliest HLS30Us might tend to believe that the HRW was only phased in as an afterthought in ALL models, or was perhaps delayed for some reason. Since there is compelling evidence that some of the earliest production cars in the Japanese home market did have the HRW, this would not be the case. That's what made me wonder whether this was an item dropped from the spec of some early 'Export' cars in order to save costs (?).

I can imagine that having no HRW would save a little labour time, and a fair amount of parts cost. Don't forget that we are talking about a difference in the wiring loom ( in the case of the S30S anyway ) and the relay / switch etc too. Would it be possible that NMC USA staff ( and I'm thinking of the buck stopping at Katayama san ) might have considered the HRW an unnecessary feature - particularly for California? Does that sound silly? Personally I would have thought a Factory-fitted HRW would be a great boon on any car - indeed a necessity - but I still remember that a lot of European cars of the late Sixties and early Seventies did NOT have them as standard equipment.........

Anyway, as I mentioned in the previous post, the S30 and PS30 models had the HRW from the off whilst the S30S model did not. Interestingly, I can't find any differing part numbers for the interior plastic "Garnish-tail rail" between the S30 / PS30 and the S30S. They all had the same part number whether they had the HRW or not. That's curious. Makes me wonder if the slots for the wires were hand cut for cars with the HRW?

Part numbers:

*90301-E4100 - GLASS tail gate window ( clear )

*90301-E4101 - GLASS tail gate window ( heated element type )

*86722-E4100 - GROMMET heat glass switch

( this is the blanking plug for the console panel when no HRW is fitted ).

Some photos:

A scan of a couple of pages from Nissan's first "Service Shuho" booklet from November 1969, introducing the new Fairlady Z models to the dealerships. Page no.138 has a line drawing of the HRW element system and wiring, and mentions that this is fitted as standard to the S30 and PS30 but is an 'Option' on the S30S.

Page no.165 shows the operation of the HRW switch on the console panel. I think the gloved hand is Matsuo san's.

[cbuczesk]

Mine has clear glass.

Chuck

240Z #390

[stevemasum]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7941737775&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT

According to this Ebay auction, car #889 had the heated rear window. It also had a very rare switch. All the other switches I've seen were of the illuminated type.

Steve

[JLPurcell]

Chris, I have been following this thread and just for information sake

HLS30 00029 hatch glass has the verticle defroster. JLP

[Alfadog]

HS30-1031 in australia did NOT have the HRW

[Bambikiller240]

In the USA, back in the 70's, "some" aftermarket glass companies sold hatch glass that did not have the defroster grid. I had a friend that got "stuck" with a clear hatch glass (by his insurance co.) when a thief busted into his 74 260Z to steal things out of his car while it was parked in a mall parking lot.

[240znz]

HS30 #352 doesn't have a rear screen demister. It has a blank over the switch plate and a opaque blank over the side marker switch location on the centre console also.

[26th-Z]

Greetings gentlemen and happy holidays!

Let the Tomas call me up and harrass me, Alan! I love hearing his point of view and don't you think for a minute that I believe all of it. :eek:

The first "window sticker" I have posted is from Her Majesty; the yellowish print. The second is from a known 1970 production car. And the third is a blank from the 1972 model year. I am working on a collection of North American Service Bulletins which may indicate when the "change" was made, but this is a patient game and it may be some time before I aquire the information. I DO know that the illuminated switches began in January 1971 with what is refered to as the Series Two cars.

I am glad to see people jump into this conversation. As "nerdy" as it may seem, some of us enjoy this aspect of "carcheology". I tend to think of it as an appreciation of what we are looking at when we view someone's car. I thoroughly love looking at cars, all cars, and like savoring a fine wine or topless dancer, I like to know a little bit about what I am looking at.

Alan, you asked me if I have arrived at a conclusion. No. Here are some thoughts about the subject from my opinion. The clear glass was an intentional decision for the initial HLS30U cars. I used to think that the change of spec came from the North American Testing Program, but evidence of the clear glass in the higher serial numbered cars blows that explanation - perhaps. The hatch vent situation changed much later, and I am convinced that the hatch vents changed because of the Canada tour of the Program. I am fairly certain that the NATP cars had clear glass. There is no reason to discount the economic explanation. I am of the opinion that the HLS30 is more closely tied to the S30, however. The wiring harnesses contain the same features. We could argue floor mats and carpet, but these photos all indicate carpeting as a standard feature. For the record, 26 has rubber floor mats and 27 has rust. I suspect that the HLS30U (N,V) is a fully independent model specifically geared to a certain marketing profile. I don't know why, but it seems obvious that Datsun marketing thought to "tone down" the spec for the North American market. I think they underestimated what they could have sold for a higher price. I think that this conversation is fuel to argument that Datsun had no idea how popular the 240Z was going to be in the export variant.

The rear window defroster was a cutting edge feature in 1969. Further indication of what impact the Japanese manufacturer's had on the American car market. I can only imagine if the Z would have come with cup holders! It seems some of the very first cars were sold with the defrosters as an option or dealer installed standard. Perhaps Datsun did not know if the Americans would appreciate heated glass? Perhaps some cars were fitted as an attempt to judge marketing reaction? I'm going out on a limb, but I think we are going to find that the vertical lined defrosters became standard some time around July through October of 1970. This was a period of major modifications and I think the heated hatch glass was one of them. The production numbers for the Series Two cars are too high to support the idea that the change was made at that time. This seems to be a low serial number thing.

Thanks to every one who writes in and polls their car. It helps the collective knowledge.

[mdbrandy]

I can account for a number of early cars and have no idea when the part changed to the vertical lined demister glass. Here is what I know. Car #'s 16, 19, 20, 26, 27, 33, 40, 42, 52 and 95 have clear glass. Car 332 has clear glass, 279 does not. I think 793 has clear glass, but I'll have to check with the owner. #215 is on this site regularly. What say you, Mark?

#215 has clear hatch glass.