Z Restoration Progam

[Carl Beck]

Chris wrote:

>I love the recollections that I have been hearing, but who was "a representative

>from the American clubs was sent to Tokyo to plead with Nissan to revive the Z."

Hi Chris:

You don't have to read my Posts.. but, gee... do you have to make it so obvious?*

I answered that question in my earlier "recollections".

1. It was Mike Taylor, the Executive Director of the ZCCA (I think I called him the President of ZCCA earlier..oops).

2. He wasn't really "sent" there to plead with Nissan to revive the Z. He went there to make a surprise "house call" on Mr. K for his birthday. While there, a meeting with Nissan was arranged according to his trip report. (sent out to the Club Presidents and printed in the Z Cub of Texas's Newsletter).

Be careful that you don't get totally wrapped around the axle by confusing "written documents" with "facts". The "fact" is that the meeting at Nissan HQ was a surprise addition to the trip according to Mike - he should know right? But the fact important to this discussion is that the meeting took place.

>Representing what American clubs?

At the time (Sept 1995), there were about 20 local clubs AIR, that were paying dues (or who promised to pay them) to the ZCCA. I'm pretty sure that they were included in the "Charter Members", but some Charter Members joined a little later. (as I recall all dues had to be paid in full by the 1997 Convention, in order to be included in the list of Charter Members).

ARIZONA Z-CAR CLUB

BLUE RIDGE Z CLUB

BRAZOS VALLEY Z CAR CLUB

BRITISH COLUMBIA Z REGISTRY

CAROLINA Z CLUB

DATSUN ZOOM CLUB [MONTREAL]

GATEWAY Z CLUB INC

GROUP Z

MARYLAND Z CLUB

OKLAHOMA Z CLUB

SMOKY MOUNTAIN Z CAR CLUB

THOUSAND ISLAND Z CAR CLUB

TRIAD Z CLUB

TRIANGLE Z CLUB

WHITE ROSE Z & ZX CLUB

Z CAR ASSOCIATION OF RICHMOND

Z CAR CLUB OF COLORADO

Z CAR CLUB OF NORTHERN VIRGINIA

Z CLUB OF ALBUQUERQUE

Z CLUB OF GEORGIA

Z CLUB OF HOUSTON

Z CLUB OF OHIO

Z CLUB OF SAN DIEGO

Z CLUB OF TEXAS

Z SPORT

ZOOM [Z CLUB OF MN]

Nonetheless the ZCCA represented itself to Nissan as "representing all Z Car Clubs in North America".. members or not. (of course this was pure BS, you can't represent people that don't belong to your organization).

>Where is the correspondence surrounding that?

There was none that I know of, it wasn't arranged by correspondence but by a phone call

>With whom did this person meet?

Mr. Yoshikazu Hanawa, Executive Vice President, Nissan (he was E.VP in 95).

>You see, the story is a good one and as I dig into

>this a little, I am beginning to see where a lot of it originates. Some of it is based in fact.

This is as it should be - right? You are trying to write a story.. not prove a case in court.*

>Actually, I started all this because of the off color F word. The F word is a

>press interpretation of Nissan marketing. It is taking me

>some time to sort through the facts. I just got fooled by

>Road & Track!

Off color????? as in "F you" ? <vbg>

"The F word is a press interpretation of Nissan marketing."? If by "F" word you are talking about the use of the term.. "Factory" as in "Factory Restored". No - I don't think that is a press interpretation at all... that is a fact correctly reported by the Press.

The FACT is, the Vintage Z's are FACTORY RESTORED (maybe REMANUFACTURED is better term) Classic 240-Z's.*

Nissan Motors USA is as much "the Factory" in that context of the word... as Nissan Motors Ltd. Japan. As far as Nissan and their stockholders are concerned, they are both parts of the whole.

The 240-Z's were built by a Nissan Motors subcontractor to begin with. The 240-Z's are Factory Cars...right? It's totally appropriate that when they are rebuilt at Nissan Motors direction and control... even if by different subcontractors, they are still "Factory" products. They aren't "Dealer Specials".. Nissan Motors funded the project, Nissan Motors sold the cars through their Authorized Dealers and Nissan Motors Warranted their product.

We use the term "Factory Works Z Cars"... yet they were all "re-worked" in England before the competition events by yet a different subcontractor. Are they not Factory cars any longer?

Silly semantics arguments aside, I think that if Nissan Motors calls them "Factory Restored" or refers to them as "a Factory Restoration Program" etc.... then they certainly have a perfect right to do so.

>Here is Dale Ishimoto (I am uncertain of the spelling) with Yutaka Katayama

>at the Vintage Z Rally and Picnic, May 3, 1997.

While it has commonly been referred to as the "Vintage Z Rally and Picnic". To be more correct/precise - it was the picture taken at "The Vintage Z Roll Out" (or Vintage Z Press Roll Out).*

An article could be written about the actual "Rally"... that traveled from Dealer to Dealer. The Caravan to the first Dealership from Nissan HQ (that made the National News). Another Article could be written about the Picnic... all in addition to the actual press roll-out of the Vintage Z's and the displays set up to show them off. OF course we talked about the CHPS's that showed up to escort Mr. K and the Z Caravan...

When you are up here next, we'll see if we can dig out the pictures of the "Rally" which was just one of the events held that day. There was also a "Z Car Show" held in the main parking lot and a "Vintage Z Car Display" set up on the lawns. Nissan Motors USA hosted the Joint Group-Z / IZCC Picnic at their H.Q. that day as well. I might still have my notes somewhere, from the planning meetings held a few days before the Rollout.

As I recall the lead car that day was a Silver 240-Z restored by PZ.. and I'm pretty sure it is the one that the Factory kept. It was on display at the International Auto Show in Dearborn when the 350Z was introduced.

FWIW,

Carl

Carl Beck

Clearwater,FL USA

http://ZHome.com

[26th-Z]

Hey Carl,

Just a quick reply to say that I have another long post worked up concerning the production process with a bunch of photos.

Mike Taylor is one of four people with their hand in the air at the moment. And I haven't talked to half the people I really need to contact. You should see the information I'm finding. Right now, Mike Taylor has a 25% chance of being correct in my mind. I said in the begining post that this was a sensitive subject. Yea!!!

As far as I can determine, "Factory" was never used by Nissan. Never. I can quote all kinds of Nissan people, including Katayama.

The NMC U.S.A. invitation is entitled; "Vintage Z Quality Control Launch Rally" and the Logo for the event says; "Vintage Z Rally". Thanks for all that info, Carl. It is scheduled for another long write-up with bunches of pictures. The first car, silver '70, was there along with 3 other HLS30s and an S32. Katayama's famous yellow HLS30 was the lead car. Two of the Vintage Z HLS30s were automatics. I can now account for three automatics in the program.

Oh! and Carl, we're planning a Z mecca day with honored guests 1/29. And I just registered for ZFest.

[Zrush]

Hi Chris, Hi Carl!

If I'm not mistaken, I believe this was the first Z produced for the program. This car sits at the Nissan North American headquarters in Gardena California.

Vicky

[Carl Beck]

Chris Wrote:

>....

>Mike Taylor is one of four people with their hand in the air at the moment.

Hi Chris:

Sorry, I don't understand what you mean. You mean that three people other than Mike, claim to be the person in question?

>And I haven't talked to half the people I really need to contact.

>You should see the information I'm finding. Right now, Mike Taylor has

>a 25% chance of being correct in my mind.

Chris.. do you think, or are you being told that some other representative (other than Mike) was sent to Japan by the American Z Clubs? That would be interesting indeed.

Or are you saying that my credibility is only 25% - or are you just trying to get me to dig more of this stuff out?

OK - I Quote from Mad Mike's trip report.. Sept. 14th through 20th 1995, as published in the Z Club of Texas newsletter, of Oct. 1995. I think I still have the copy he sent to the Clubs somewhere as well.

.... {Monday though Thursday snipped..cjb}...

.......

......."Friday morning, complete with suite, jumped into a cab to meet with Kenji and Mr. K at Nissan headquarters for our prearranged conference with whomever. (ed. the meeting was arranged the Tuesday before..cjb)...I arrived early and was shown to a carefully appointed conference room. I became aware of someone else entering the serenity of the peaceful atmosphere when I heard.. "I am Hanawa". After introducing myself in Japanese {had a few days to practice}, we exchanged business cards. His card reads: Mr. Yoshikazu Hanawa, Executive Vice President. Namba-San's call resulted in a big surprise for me."

Mr. K and Kenji joined us shorty and we discussed various aspects of the "Z" for roughly an hour. In short, Hanawa-San made some notes about our Z Car Club movement, was impressed with the pictures and discussion of the Z American Relay and stated that Nissan wanted to keep the Z as their flagship product if economically viable. We also discussed the problems of meeting EPA requirements, the changing value of the Yen and sports cars in general. Mr. K also stressed and I reinforced from my research within the ZCCA, the sentiment that Nissan should produce a simpler, more economical Z to attract more customers and increase market share. Hanawa-San left us by graciously stating he would pass along our comments and concerns to those within Nissan currently studying the "Z's" future. Regardless of what the future holds for our Z, we at least have had our "day in court"... thanks to Mr. K and Naba-San.

..... End Quote............

"Naba-san" mentioned above is Yasuhara Nanba, class winner of the 1957 Australian Rally, former President and then current Counselor to NISMO. Mr. Nanba made the arrangements for the meeting at HQ the following friday.

>I said in the begining post that this was a sensitive subject. Yea!!!

I haven't seen anything "sensitive" so far... conflicted/confused for sure, but when you are dealing with people's perspectives of past events that's to be expected ... yes/no?

I'll scan a few things I've found lately.. and send them to you.

FWIW,

Carl

Carl Beck

Clearwater,FL USA

http://ZHome.com

[Carl Beck]

Chris wrote earlier:

>.........

>Case in point....Most people will tell you that there were two or three

>shops involved in the Program. There were four. Nissan documentation

>includes a production figure for two of the shops at a certain date.

>.........

Hi Chris:

Well Pete Evanow, Manager, Z-Store - told us on 30 Oct. 98, that the program was ending 31 Oct. 98. He stated that 18 body shops and 3 Restoration Business had done 40 cars by that point. He also said that Datsun Ally would finish the remaining cars and get them out to the Dealers within a few weeks.

Looks like one of the planned restoration shops.... didn't materialize??? I wonder if that should have said 8 body shops... 18 sounds a bit high for 40 cars... but then given only a year to do them all.. maybe not.

FWIW,

Carl

Carl Beck

Clearwater,FL USA

http://Zhome.com

[26th-Z]

Carl and group,

When I started this thread, I received a few e-mails from people concerned that the conversation would turn into another "he said / she said" dispute and I pledged to "report" corroborated, documented information - hard evidence that I could point to and perhaps share. There is plenty of it around. I also pledge to retract anything that I "report" incorrectly or misinterpret. That happened a few posts ago. I am also very amenable to report all the “he said / she said” conversations I hear and suggest they be represented as such. I am still aggressively gathering information. I don’t think there is enough material to write a book about or that anyone would buy it, but there is definitely enough to write a long essay and as of this post, I announce my intentions to do so. I will be conducting this similarly to a “semester research project” that I’m sure many of you can relate to. Everyone who contributes gets credit and the final document will be available to everyone. As I write, I will post so that everyone can comment, contribute and encourage. I think that Vintage Zs represent a unique chapter in the history of a unique automobile and the story needs to be told accurately; however the chips may fall. It is a good reading story from the looks of it.

Thanks for calling today, Carl. I will happily come and help you dig through your archives. I appreciate all the help you can offer. I don’t want you to think that I believe everything in print, either. Verbal recollections of events certainly help to reinforce what was written at the time. As we discussed over the phone, the letter makes no reference to buying up old cars, restoring them, and selling them again. However, it IS a critical piece of the story – no doubt.

And that’s where this information is coming from. Old Z club newsletters, magazines, photographs and home movies. I’m currently waiting for a collection of photographs and a magazine article from Australia. I just received a collection from Atlanta. Another superb collection has been located in Washington. Several people actively involved in the Program have indicated their support. That’s how wonderful the response has been. I can’t thank everyone enough! I surely intend to do something worthy of all the help.

Here are some pictures from home movies.

[HS30-H]

"The F word is a press interpretation of Nissan marketing."? If by "F" word you are talking about the use of the term.. "Factory" as in "Factory Restored". No - I don't think that is a press interpretation at all... that is a fact correctly reported by the Press.

The FACT is, the Vintage Z's are FACTORY RESTORED (maybe REMANUFACTURED is better term) Classic 240-Z's.*

Nissan Motors USA is as much "the Factory" in that context of the word... as Nissan Motors Ltd. Japan. As far as Nissan and their stockholders are concerned, they are both parts of the whole.

Here we go again........

Carl, I'm sorry but if you really think that the cars in question can truly be described as "Factory" restored - with all the inference of connection with the Factory that they were originally manufactured in - then you are living in another world to me.

I think you know what is implied when the word "Factory" is connected with these cars, and there is no way in hell that it is appropriate. How can you say that Nissan Motors USA is "the Factory" in the true sense of that entity being the PLACE where the cars were put together when they were originally made? I think its just bending the truth to suit an agenda.

If you want to carry this idea to its logical conclusion, then even Nissan's own spare parts supply operation in Japan becomes a "sub contractor" to Nissan. This is not the case is it? They are a wholly-owned subsidiary company that CANNOT be described in the same way that a true sub contractor should.

The 240-Z's were built by a Nissan Motors subcontractor to begin with. The 240-Z's are Factory Cars...right? It's totally appropriate that when they are rebuilt at Nissan Motors direction and control... even if by different subcontractors, they are still "Factory" products. They aren't "Dealer Specials".. Nissan Motors funded the project, Nissan Motors sold the cars through their Authorized Dealers and Nissan Motors Warranted their product.

Once again you are demonstrating that you have never understood the dynamics and machinations of Nissan Japan. I've seen you describe Nissan Shatai as a "subcontractor" to Nissan before, and it tells me that you are misinterpreting their relationship.

Nissan Shatai built - as in pressed, welded and finished - the bodies of the first-generation S30-series Z cars. Nissan Shatai ( was ) is a company owned by Nissan. Its part of the Nissan group of companies. If you want to call them a "subcontractor" in the same sense that companies such as Hitachi, Mitsubishi, Koito, Tokico, Kotobuki - and all the other myriad names associated with making parts for Nissan's first-gen Z cars were, then once again you are bending the facts to suit your agenda. You are wrong.

We use the term "Factory Works Z Cars"... yet they were all "re-worked" in England before the competition events by yet a different subcontractor. Are they not Factory cars any longer?

No comparison. I hope you really know what the function of Old Woking Service Station had in relation to the "Works" rally cars when you use it as an example for comparison ( I don't think you do )?

The Works rally cars were built from the ground up in Japan, and Old Woking simply took them apart for normal rally-related servicing operations. If you think you can imply that Old Woking's activities "re-worked" those cars in the sense that they became responsible for their specification and modifications as Works rally cars, then you are once again demonstrating a skewed view of the facts. You have no idea what you are talking about.

Silly semantics arguments aside, I think that if Nissan Motors calls them "Factory Restored" or refers to them as "a Factory Restoration Program" etc.... then they certainly have a perfect right to do so.

Carl Beck

Clearwater,FL USA

http://ZHome.com

I don't call it "silly semantics" when we are trying to straighten out the use of a word that implies a whole different situation to the truth. Why is the word "Factory" being used - as opposed to "company" or "manufacturer" or some other word? You know as well as I do that it links the cars back to the place where they were originally built, which is inappropriate in the true sense of the word in this particular case.

[sblake01]

Well, Chris, you knew what you were getting yourself into when you started this. I understand where Carl is comming from but on the other hand I understand where Alan is comming from. Carl's points are based on American style marketing techniques where as Alan's points are based on reality. And when I hear the term 'Factory' that's is what I think of.....the place where the particular product was assembled. I won't contribute much to this thread because all I know is what I've heard. And what I've heard, I've heard here in America. But, at least for me, you guys are going to have a tough time rationalizing that term-Factory Restoration Program-be it 'silly semantics' or whatever.

[26th-Z]

Even though I am still collecting information, I stick to my guns.

"As far as I can determine, "Factory" was never used by Nissan. Never. I can quote all kinds of Nissan people (edit: sources), including Katayama."

As soon as I find any sort of NMC documentation that uses the word "factory", I'll let you know. Promise.

[Zedrally]

Sorry, Alan, Carl, Chris etc, but I can't help myself.

Firstly, you wouldn't get away with this wording in Australia. It's just pure deception to call it that...

Factory means just that, Factory.

For it to be Factory restored it would need to be returned all the way back to Japan and restored in the Factory that it came from.

Nissan, Datsun, Dealer restoration or reconditioned would be a more suitable wording.

There are no silly silly semantics in this. The wording was very poorly selected, by who? Perhaps we will never know?

Why not compromise and accept that the wording is mis-leading [whether intentional or not] and not enshrine this wording as our old mate Goertz was!

[26th-Z]

If you go back through our archives and read the debates about the Vintage Zs, you will see (1. Me making an idiot of myself) many questions about "aftermarket" parts, wheels primarily. Then there are a few comments about stereo systems, incorrect parts, milage...all kinds of questions about the cars' build. I have several pieces of information sources that are NOT included in this writing, and this topic will grow. I think it will separate into a body conversation, an assembly conversation and a parts discussion. There is no intention or implication on my part to debate the merits or faults of the restoration technique; rather focus on the reasons why certain things were done the way they were and what is common between the cars' build. Later, as the story unfolds, scheduling and delivery will play a role in this process and you will see how these cars fit the Nissan plan. I think you will see, as this story develops, method to the madness. Here is a blurb on method.

…talk about how the Vintage Z cars were prepared. How were they restored? What techniques were used? What finishes? What do we see when we view these cars which may differ from the way they left the factory in 1970, ’71 and ’72? Nissan makes strong statements about how these cars were “improved”, “upgraded”. Nissan was selling brand new cars with 12 month / 12,000 mile warranties. There were Federal laws and liability issues to contend with. Requirements for vehicle emissions and passenger safety had changed. Although they were previously owned, previously registered, they were sold representing new cars. This is where the concept of equating brand new to refurbished and restored plays into marketing the cars. They had to be portrayed as brand new eliminating the question of worn out or how they were simply “repaired”. They had to be portrayed as restored to avoid the different legislation. To this extend, “restoration” took on a meaning of part replacement. “New restoration”. “Restored new”. This article deals with the official Nissan description of how the cars were prepared.

Pierre Perrot estimated Nissan was able to provide between 75% and 80% of the parts replaced in an interview he gave at the Vintage Z Rally, May 3, 1996. At the time, approximately five cars had been completed. Later in the Z Restoration Program, trends and techniques become more evident. In order to replace all the parts, the car had to be completely taken apart. Certainly the old body shell had to be cleaned and repaired. Everything had to come off for the shell to be thoroughly treated. There is indication that they were primarily bead blasted.

“Now that all the car’s components have been removed, the 240Zs body is taken apart as well. The hood, fenders, doors and liftgate are removed, and all panels are carefully stripped down to bare metal. Rotating platforms allow the technicians to check every nook and cranny of the panels. Craftsmen then go to work on the sheet metal until every inch of it meets their high standards, free of ripples, blemishes or dents”.

To the best of my knowledge, all the Pierre prepared cars were undercoated. This may have been common to all the cars as a Nissan specification.

“Next, the body and panels are painted an original factory color. This time, however, the paint process gives the chassis a far more lustrous and durable finish than was possible all those years ago. Just one example of how the Z Restoration Program uses today’s advanced technology to compliment the classic features of the Z”.

In a later publication, Nissan comments on paint colors. Evidently, we find that the buyer had some input

“…and we feel it is important to be able to provide specific paint choices and model years, as desired by our buyers.”

New sound deadening material was installed as well as insulation. There is evidence that this material was hand cut to fit each car. “…while improved sound-deadening material has been added to help deliver a quieter ride”.

Nissan indicates that new interior parts were made.

“Presently, we are only able to offer the black interior, but we are looking into the possibility….”. And; “We have found a company that has developed tooling to manufacture new interior components, from the carpeting to sun visors, and we are very pleased with their work”. “Their designs are exactly like those found in an original Z, right down to the stitching patterns, but they are made with higher quality materials”.

A tremendous amount of hardware was replaced.

“”When available, genuine Nissan parts are used…Many ancillary components including the alternator, starter motor and fuel pump are replaced with new units or ones that have been remanufactured to our stringent standards”.

The engines, transmissions, braking and steering systems were completely overhauled and “some things are automatically replaced”.

“As always, if there is any doubt about whether a part should be replaced, we simply replace it”.

Nissan literature talks briefly about updating some aspects of the 240Z. A 3-row radiator was used and the tire specification was updated. In an effort to provide more durability to suspension components they were powder coated “to factory colors” so as to “ensure that you will enjoy your 240Z’s performance for years to come”.

An air-conditioning kit using an “updated” rotary-style compressor with U.S.-legal R-134A refrigerant was made available through Courtesy Nissan in Texas. There is indication that the air-conditioning kits were installed during restoration as well as later by the specific Z-Store dealer.

Most all the rubber was available new including the hoses. Very early in the production, cloth braided radiator hoses dissappeared as did the brake vacumn hose. Both of those are commonly rubber. The top radiator hose displays a white arrow indicating the fit of the hose. Hose clamps are commonly the hex head type - zinc plated - and seem to be consistantly used throughout the engine bay.

OK for the moment. Sentences and long word phrases in quotes are from some of my sources. Words I put in my own quotes to denote a certin flexibility in meaning. Here are the pictures to accompany the text.

[Zrush]

Hi Chris

Kudos on all your hard work and research on this unique project by Nissan. Ol' Yeller is a Pierre restoration. I must say that if the bodyman that did ZRush had all the resources that Pierre did, he could have produced the same (if not better) quality job. Pierre and the rest of the shops had time limits thus restricting much attention to "fine" details. I honestly think my husbands 77 is a better restored car and I'm not talking about mods. Then again they are two completely different cars but I've seen what went into the 77. Four years of blood, sweat, many tears and lots of money on a Z that was restored just five years prior by the previous owner.

FWIW

Vicky