Your thoughts wanted, preservation/restoration?

[Coastieee240z]

Good thread..I'll bite.. :lick:

Like stated by others I say do what you want with it and turn it into something you love and it's all good. I may hate it, I may love it but that doesn't matter as long as it's cared for and loved by someone then it's not being ignored and turned into something aweful by mother nature.

I'd like to think there's different levels of restoration...not just all or nothing. In other words I belive in restoration with a twist. I'm restoring some things to factory or as close to factory condition as I can like the rear defroster that I want to get working, the interior body panels and doors, while other things I'm modifying to improve performance and looks of the car. Things like the stereo isn't stock and it wont ever return to stock, it looks and sounds good but isn't turned into a boom box, the shocks will be replaced with 5-way tokicos, 16 or 17 inch wheels with low profile tires also to help handling, upgraded sway bars, engine mods, etc.

My car will be.. or well..is in the modified/hybrid section though some things will be restored on it. I don't think of the work I'm doing as purely modifying it I consider myself to be restoring it with improvements :bandit:

[ajmcforester]

Restoration can be fun, sometime I think people go to far. I think eather way, restoring to dealership condition or factory conditions is great, if you have dealership sales recepts showing there mods it can be entered into restoration compitiions in the dealership setting. One thing I'd consider is not fixing everything, example my car is 1972 with white interor the color of the panels have changed color over time and don't match each other, in fact the vinal is close to the original off white, and the plastic panels are tan from age, and the seat covers were replaced. Some people resoring would need to dye the plastic, or fade the seat and color the vinyle, while I like to see the history in the car by not replacing or coloring to match. It gives the carecter and a uniqe style. If and when I'll replace parts with new I'll have them looking like originals from factory or find original parts, but I will now make them match the other parts.

[JLPurcell]

I am please with the great response to this thread!!! :classic: I hope other join in with their thoughts. Carl you really hit home for me with you post. I am finding all perspectives refreshing. I hope to have a bone stock car soon and then I will feel more free to restore/preserve my 72 to a mild 70's compititon state. :nervous: JLP

[Doug]

I agree with earlier comments about resoration being personal, hopefully my Zed will end up looking basically stock from the outside but maybe some differences in engine bay and interior. If I ever have the good fortune ( and fat wallet :classic: ) to find a nice 240 I think I'd have to keep it as stock as possible.

Oh and *puts noob hat on*, what's a 'spook'? :stupid:

[Carl Beck]

Hi Doug /everyone :

In 1970, in the SCCA's C-Production Class, "aerodynamic devices" were not allowed to be added to the production cars. (this was a Production Class after-all).

Peter Brock devised an air "spoiler" for the radiator combined with a brake cooling scoop" for the BRE 240-Z's that were being raced by BRE Racing. He told the SCCA's tech. inspectors that for the brake cooling ducts to work they had to scoop cool air in from the front of the car.

No sir, that's not an "aerodynamic device", it is simply an air spoiler and scoop for cooling air for the radiator and front brakes. (allowed at the time under SCCA's rules).

This was born the BRE Front Spook. (spoiler + scoop). Of course the fact that the Spook all but cancels the 140 lbs. of lift generated by the Z's body design at 70 mph, by adding 105 lbs of downforce was simply .... uh... a side benefit... ;-).

The rear spoiler was a factory production part and thus allowed under SCCA's rules at the time. Although not "standard equipment" for the North American models, it was standard equipment on the Euro. Spec. Models (as was the 5spd which was also used in SCCA C-Production). The rear spoiler adds 75 lbs of downforce to the rear wheels and thus cancels the 20 lbs of lift at 70 mph on the stock car, and 35 lbs of lift at the rear with a front Spook installed.(adding downforce to the front of the car, pushes the rear up.. thus 35lbs. of lift at the rear with the front Spook installed).

FWIW

Carl

Any 240Z driven on the highway really should have a Spook!

[Doug]

Thanks for the info Carl

< is intrigued> Next question, any pictures out there of one?

[Alfadog]

Here's one-

http://www.classiczcars.com/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=10297&sort=1&cat=all&page=1

[72240Z]

I like the looks of that spook. Far more understated than most. Is there a Nissan part number for it? Or do I have to get one from MSA? If so can somebody provide me a link?

Devin

[Doug]

Thanks for linkage Alfa, should've thought to search galleries! :stupid:

I like the looks of that spook. Far more understated than most. Is there a Nissan part number for it? Or do I have to get one from MSA? If so can somebody provide me a link?

Devin

From the comments thread of Alfadog's link:

Much higher quality, stronger, and has more secure mounting. uses stock radiator support holes, and 6 more holes need to be drilled.

I got this at classic Datsun Motorsports in Vista, CA www.classicdatsun.com

Might wanna try them.

[xray]

I noticed recently the NADA website slashed about $5,000 of value from a high retail 1972 240Z from $17,xxx to about $12,5xx. Needless to say I was pretty well shocked by the price cut, and continue to hope this is a typo. But, given the condition of my car and the cost to attain stock restoration it seems like a pretty severe financial loss, since my car will have this new benchmark for insurance appraisal/resale negotiations.

Having had my mind recently warped by watching the B-J 2004 auction highlights, I wonder if a high-quality resto-mod might be a better value. After all, resto-mod appraisals and sale prices appear a bit more subjective (I think) and don't have entrenched written-down value guides. In essence, resto-mods may rely more on the quality of the work done than whether the restoration is "Factory correct," which is the benchmark for stock restorations. Each indiviual resto-mod car would appear to me to stand on its own merits more so than a stock restoration which has clear benchmarks for quality.

Having said all this, I am certainly of the denomination that believes in enjoying your car however you see fit to restore it. Just do a good job, care for the car, and keep it away from the crusher! Whether you choose to modernize your restoration or make it a time-warp to the early '70s is a personal decision. I am just wondering about people's opinions on value since there is somewhat of a move to look upon classic cars as serious financial investments (e.g. recent WSJ article)

thanks,

X

[JLPurcell]

I noticed recently the NADA website slashed about $5,000 of value from a high retail 1972 240Z from $17,xxx to about $12,5xx. Needless to say I was pretty well shocked by the price cut, and continue to hope this is a typo.

I believe that NADA uses a formula considering recent sales to help determine value. For such a drastic change in value something has to be askew. A small sample group can be drastically altered by one or two sales. I believe that the recent NADA values for the 1972 240Z is probably due to a lack of trading of high end examples during the sample period. I will need to do more research but I know such a formula is used by Edmonds TMV and others. JLP

[Carl Beck]

Hi Jerry / everyone:

I'm not sure what happened to the Values on the NADA Web Site... However, looking back over the years, the NADA CPI Book has changed their "Definition of Categories" at least more than once.

In 1989 their reported "HIGH" values were NOT for 100 Point Show Cars...

In 1998 their reported "Excellent" values would seem to indicate that they are for 100 Point Show Cars.

There Web Site... seems to return to their earlier definitions of categories.. ie "High" values are NOT for 100 Point Show Cars...

Also notice their remarks related to data collection and "projecting values" in 1998... which wasn't there in 1989.

Below are the remarks and definitions as published 1998 and 1998 (taken from books I kept).

NADA Cars of Particular Interest (CPI) Value Guide:

1989 to 1991 Editors Remarks:

The sources of data are auctions, dealer sales reports, market letters, club newsletters, CPI make and model surveys by questionnaires and other sources regarded as reliable.

The market data is recorded and processed with the aid of computers employing editing processes which are standard in the industry.

Definition of Categories:

CPI does not assign condition categories to the column headings because values generally move in small increments and there are seldom well defined points which indicate condition. In a general sense, the LOW value represents an intact and functioning automobile which can be restored at reasonable cost. The AVERAGE value in indicative of a clean, front-line ready automobile. The HIGH value is representative of a car which requires nothing. It may be a show car, but not a 100 Point car. There are some cars in CPI which are rarely, if ever, driven, but most cars are assumed to be driven.

= = = = = = = = =

1998 Editors Remarks:

The sources of data are auctions, dealer sales reports, market letters, club newsletters, CPI make and model surveys by questionnaires and other sources regarded as reliable.

The market data above is analyzed by CPI editorial staff and values are projected for the next edition.

Definition of Categories:

FAIR: Presentable condition. Runs and Drives and will pass a safety inspection. May be driven on a daily basis. Generally in need of a cosmetic restoration, but not a ""basket case". There are many cars on the road that fall below CPI Fair category, and well be priced accordingly. These are commonly referred to as "beaters", and are usually not worth restoring, as the restoration costs will usually all most certainly exceed the value of the finished vehicle.

GOOD: Very nice condition. In fact most casual observers would describe the vehicle as "excellent". Good Cars show very little wear and are driven sparingly. Many are used as weekend drivers. Many older restorations fall into this category.

EXCELLENT: Nearly perfect condition. The vehicle has usually been professionally restored to the current highest standards, but a few exceptionally well cared for original cars may qualify. All components are original or are an exact replacement. Most excellent cars are not driven more than a few miles per year, if at all. There are vehicles, usually due to an interesting history or special circumstance, which will sell for more than CPI's "excellent" figure, but these are extremely rare and would require extensive documentation.

== = = = = = = = =

Current Remarks on the Web Page:

Definitions Of Categories:

Low Retail Value

This vehicle would be in mechanically functional condition, needing only minor reconditioning. The exterior paint, trim, and interior would show normal wear, needing only minor reconditioning. May also be a deteriorated restoration or a very poor amateur restoration. Most usable "as-is".

Note: This value does not represent a "parts car".

Average Retail Value

This vehicle would be in good condition overall. It could be an older restoration or a well-maintained original vehicle. Completely operable. The exterior paint, trim, and mechanics are presentable and serviceable inside and out. A "20-footer".

High Retail Value

This vehicle would be in excellent condition overall. It could be a completely restored or an extremely well maintained original vehicle showing very minimal wear. The exterior paint, trim, and mechanics are not in need of reconditioning. The interior would be in excellent condition. Note: This value does not represent a "100 Point" or "# 1" vehicle *.

* "100 Point" or "# 1" vehicle is not driven. It would generally be in a museum or transported in an enclosed trailer to concourse judging and car shows. This type of car would be stored in a climate-regulated facility.

========= End Quote = = = = = =

BTW - Jan/Feb/March, 1998 CPI VALUES 240-Z

For 1970 240Z:

Fair: $2100.00

Good: $3750.00

Excellent: $7500.00

For 71-73 240Z:

Fair $1900.00

Good: $3400.00

Excellent: $6800.00

For What It's Worth, given their Web Site Definitions of "High Retail".... there are some cars sold in that condition for $14K.... most are closer to $16K.. Given the 100 Point definition... $18K to $24K would be closer today IMHO. Super rare examples are even higher..

Carl