Air-con in a 240

[Gee]

Any Americans out there who've done it??

[Inf]

Isn't there a clutch in the compressor that just disconnects the pulley from the rotor when the A/C is switched off?

[Zedrally]

Isn't there a clutch in the compressor that just disconnects the pulley from the rotor when the A/C is switched off?

The 260 model down here came equipped with a magnetic clutch.

I'd be inclined to try a swap into, from a 260, preferably a 2+2!

The clinton manual has some various pages about factory air.

MOM

[Carl Beck]

Any Americans out there who've done it??

Hi Gee:

I live in Florida, USA. It gets hot and humid here. I've been driving Datsun 240-Z's now for the past 35 years. As I got older, the desire for really good A/C got stronger and stronger.

The aftermarket A/C kits designed in the early 70's and sold though the DATSUN Dealers was about the worst A/C I've ever had in a car. In my opinion it was more a "Sales Tool" than anything else. The Datsun Dealers simply wanted to be able to say "Yes", when ask if the 240-Z could be equipped with Air Conditioning. The after-market kit really did a very poor job of cooling the car, as compared to any standard A/C system on GM, Ford or Chrysler automobiles of the same period.

Putting one of the old after-market A/C kits in the 240-Z is a waste of time and money as far as I am concerned. As someone pointed out earlier, the evaporator in that system is placed ahead of the OEM heater/Vent system. So the OEM fan has to suck air through the evaporator, then blow it through to the OEM heater/vent system

Given that the OEM fan can't move enough air to begin with, and the old ducting leaks air everywhere - an inadequate system is farther degenerated.

Cooling a 240-Z is a major job to begin with. The cars as designed, have very little insulation and leak air like a sieve. On top of that, the hatch back design creates a huge greenhouse, within which the air heats to super high temperatures.

The "Factory A/C" systems that came in our late 260Z's and 280Z's was a vast improvement over the after-mark kits for the 240-Z's. But they will not fit in a 240-Z unless you change the entire dash. The dash in the our 260/280Z's was actually an inch or two deeper, so the Factory A/C evaporator would fit behind it. (it won't fit behind the 240-Z dash)

There is only one solution as far as I am concerned. Take the entire OEM heater/vent system out and throw it away. Then go to" Vintage Air" and buy one of their SuperCoolers. This approach however, will not leave your car's dash looking pure stock. (you have to eliminate the OEM heater/vent control levers).

http://vintageair.com/

The Vintage Air SuperCooler has both the heater core and the A/C Evaporator in a single compact box. Then air is blown through the system (so if it leaks, it leaks cold air out via the OEM duct work. The Vintage Air Super Cooler is also available with all electronic controls.

You can use the 260/280/280ZX A/C Compressor mounting bracket to mount a newer style rotary compressor from those models. With the Vntage Air system you would also want to upgrade your alternator... the Vintage Air Fan draws massive amounts of current.. but it moves massive amounts of air also.

If you are planning on using R-134a...(and you should).. then you want to make sure that every component in the system you set up is designed specifically for that gas. (don't let people tell you it doesn't matter).

The molecular size of R-134a is smaller than the old R-12. So you have to have a condenser and evaporator with tubes of a smaller diameter. That is so that the molecules of the R-134a stay in direct contact with the metal of the tubes, and thus conduct the heat to the outside and the cold to the inside of the car.

Compression fittings that used to retain R-12, will leak R-134a. For a R-134a system you have to use "0-ring" type fittings.

As I recall, when it was all said and done.. I think I spent something close to $1,200.00 on all the parts (new everything). I used the OEM 280Z/280ZX compressor (Hitachi). It is possible to mount a far less expensive compressor if you can find or have made the necessary mounting brackets.

I am happy to report that I finally have an A/C system in my 240-Z that will actually cool the car down on a hot day!!

FWIW,

Carl

Carl Beck

Clearwater,FL USA

http://ZHome.com

[Gee]

It's almost getting to the point where I buy a 260z to drive on hot days!

I've seen the Courtesy Nissan kit. I wonder how good that is..

[Inf]

Interesting, could you post some pictures of your setup Carl? I am wondering how the interior elements look now. Does the vintage air box stick down under the dash less than the stock setup without a/c? The blower sticking down looks rather unsightly IMO

I am also curious about the courtesy/MSA kits, but have never found anyone who actually installed one.

[Carl Beck]

It's almost getting to the point where I buy a 260z to drive on hot days!

I've seen the Courtesy Nissan kit. I wonder how good that is..

Hi Gee:

Everyone has different expectations ... but the A/C in the 260Z works in just an OK manor here. It certainly isn't nearly a capable as any modern factory system.

As I understand it, the Courtesy system is basically the same as the original add-on kits, with the exception of using a more modern rotary style compressor and being R-134a ready. Some people have told me they are satisfied with it... I guess it all depends on your local needs/expectations.

FWIW,

Carl

[Carl Beck]

Interesting, could you post some pictures of your setup Carl? I am wondering how the interior elements look now. Does the vintage air box stick down under the dash less than the stock setup without a/c? The blower sticking down looks rather unsightly IMO

I am also curious about the courtesy/MSA kits, but have never found anyone who actually installed one.

Hi Andrew /everyone:

The Vintage Air unit actually sits higher under the dash than the old kits did.

When I installed mine a couple years ago - Vintage Air didn't have the fully electronic controls they do now. So I simply make a replacement finisher panel for the center of the dash - with larger air outlets and no levers from the OEM system.

If you remind me a few days from now - I'll try to get you some pictures.. It certainly doesn't look "stock"... but you might be able to retain the stock look with the new controls (you could put them in the glove box for example).

What one really needs - for an A/C system that REALLY WORKS.. is to pipe cold air to the rear hatch area. With the present systems it is very hard to get good circulation of the air behind the seats... and that is where a lot of the HOT air is. If you park your car out in the sun... it's very difficult to get it cooled back down in less than half hour.. (where most modern OEM systems will cool a hot car down in minutes).

E-mail me a reminder in a few days.. cbeck@becksystems.com

FWIW,

Carl

[Gee]

Carl,

Thanks so much for your input on this subject, your long (and detailed) reply is very much appreciated.

It appears that there is a dealership here in Australia that sells the Vintage Air components. Sadly, they're about 2,500 kilometres away, but maybe I can order the parts and get someone to install it for me up here. The ability to make the car APPEAR stock would be important to me, so keeping the unit in the glovebox wouldn't be a problem.

The dash really does have to come out soon in order to be recovered, so no doubt this would be the opportune time to install any aircon system.

I have one other question for you though, does the cold air actually come out of the eyeball vents, or does it just blast out of a box onto your feet?

Gareth.

[drunkenmaster]

Is the vintageair kit in discussion the universal kit?

If so, how does it fare in regards to mounting to the car body behind the dash?

[Gee]

Could you post a picture(s) of your system Carl?

[Carl Beck]

Hi Guys:

If you look at the Vintage Air Web Site, you will see that they specialize in supplying the Street Rod and Custom Car markets (huge here in the US) They do build standard systems for commonly used Street Rod bodies ...

They also offer a broad range of custom designed evaporators/heaters from which one can select the size/shape needed for custom applications. I'd say they go far beyond offering just a universal product, although one could nonetheless call it that.

Their SuperCooler III hooks directly to the three existing outlets in the Dash.. I just unplugged the existing ducting from the OEM unit and stuck it back on the SuperCooler's three outlets. The Supercooler also has two outlets for the defroster vents.. I used the OEM holes for the heater hoses as well.

I used the same mounting points for the SuperCooler, as were used for the OEM heater and aftermarket A/C kit. I did have to make a couple of strap hangers out of simple flat stock.

You can get the SuperCooler with all electronic controls.. Of course when you remove the OEM system, the levers and cables that control it are also removed. (this also leaves more room for your radio/stereo)

The weakness of the system is that it is a recirculate only system. Unlike the OEM systems in most cars today, you have no fresh air intake. Likewise you have to seal off the fresh air intake of the OEM Vent system... up under the dash. (the original aftermarket kits were also "recirculate only")

I will say that given the number of small cars on the market today, all with great OEM systems installed in very limited space ... if one had the time to search, I'm sure that a typical Honda Sedan or Toyota Sedan would yield an evaporator/heater combination that could easily be retrofit into a 240-Z.

Once you get into it, you see that it's really not a big job to do the installation of the components yourself.

While the Vintage Air SuperCooler IIi puts out about twice the air flow of the original aftermarket systems, and it does cool the car here in Florida on 100+ F degree days... It still doesn't hold a candle to the A/C systems in my old 88 Chevy Pick-up. One of the main reasons being that the Factory systems are designed to introduce fresh air, and are therefore designed with far more total cooling capacity.

Half the battle however is preventing the loss of cold air, while preventing as much heat absorption into the cabin as possible to begin with. Heavy window tinting, good body seals and floorboard insulation all have to be as good as possible.

If you park the 240-Z out in the sun all day, due to the large glass area the interior becomes a huge heat sink and any system will have a hard time overcoming that heat load.

If I were doing it again.. I might redesign the center console so cold air outlets could be supplied at the rear of the front seats. Just to get the heat out of the rear deck area quicker.

FWIW,

Carl

Carl Beck

Clearwater,FL USA

http://ZHome.com