spoiled

[Bambikiller240]

Burnin' a hole in the atmosphere, 11 mile per gallon at a time....

You don't live in Crawford, TX do you?

Now I'm not cirticizing you directly (you aren't the only one with a 11mpg vehicle) and you may have a legitimate need for it, and it's legal to own but there are reasons to not own vehicles like this

Vehicles with fuel economy like this are detrimental to our country's best interests. We are sooooo dependent on foriegn oil that this need for oil shapes our foriegn policy (in way that are making enemies and losing allies), and it adversely affects our economy. (our Trade Balance is WAY out of whack)

[LanceM]

Carl,

Not that I disagree with you but I think that we all need to get used to the changing world. We (the US) are quickly becoming something besides the worlds manufacture, with countrys like Korea (world leader in mfg of electronic items) and soon China having their industrial revolutions, we must find another "product" to sell in the world economy.

As far as dependance on foriegn oil, we can and need to develop our own, or let the price of gas get to a point that a good alternatve is developed. Until the American people complain loud enough no manufacture is going to spend the money to develop something that works well and gets us where we want to go in the style that we are acustomed to at a price that the "common" man can afford, not that I see that they are manufacturing any cars that "common" people can afford anymore, at least by my standards.

[go z racer, go]

If I may, I do not see this (article) as "the haves and have nots"; whether or not I could afford one. Nor do I believe it's a matter of taste, or preference as it were. I believe it something to do about our, the worlds, current state of dependent on fossil fuel. However, more than ever I believe it is about the blood that runs through in Iraq. The palpable dived in the US.

Hey listen, I'd love to drive a BIG truck too, but not at that political expense. How could I feel good driving through town in such a blatant oil hog while hungry families military dependents with Fathers/Mothers/Brothers/Sisters/Uncles/Anuts....serving in Iraq (soon to be Iran) peer at me from their compact beaters? No way Man-no way! They may believe George sent us there because Saddam was evil, but I know different. That knowledge alone would be enough for me.

Look, the whole country pulled together in WW2-remember? Can you imagine back then walking down the street littered with "stars" posted on windows eating a cake (sugar) wrapped in tin foil just because you could?

[Murph]

Plus be safer in an accident, as well as having a higher stance on the road to see in front of you, that's a no-brainer.

What about the poor bastard in a normal car you just ran over? He'll be dead while you might have a few scratches. The argument that these trucks are safer infuriates me....it's just so very selfish it's not funny.

Looks like we all better go out and buy huge trucks so we're safer. Oh look, now we're all driving 3.5 ton behemoths, looks like I'm going to need to buy a 5 ton, 30 foot truck so I'm 'safer'. :stupid:

Sure if people have a genuine reason for needing such a vehicle, then that's ok with me. But I dare say a very high percentage don't.

[LanceM]

Wo,

>The palpable dived in the US.

I know when I'm beat. This is beyond me, I'm out of this thread!

KMack, nice truck looks just like mine except mine is a 1500, wish it was a 4 door though, hate walking around to get something out of the backseat!

[EScanlon]

...

Vehicles with fuel economy like this are detrimental to our country's best interests. We are sooooo dependent on foriegn oil that this need for oil shapes our foriegn policy (in way that are making enemies and losing allies), and it adversely affects our economy. (our Trade Balance is WAY out of whack)

I very much agree with this. However, you're going to have a hard time selling that to people, as has been stated, with the means to buy such vehicles. Not until it affects their process to get the means, or they are restricted will you get them to agree to limit or reduce the "whateverness" that draws people to these machines.

There's yet another point to this though.

Traffic statistics are compiled from actual accident numbers. As the larger vehicles proliferate, there will be more accidents of the large vehicle / small vehicle variety. These will undoubtedly show that the small vehicle is more prone to damage than the larger vehicle (you think?). As such, newer mandates to increase small vehicle safety will both drive the price of the smaller vehicles UP, but also, by direct correlation their size. As the prices and sizes go up, we find ourselves in an upward spiral.

I'm not denigrating the H2, but I don't want my residential streets cluttered up with 10 wheel tractor trucks as the family car, simply because everybody has finally bought bigger.

Additionally, those of us who enjoy small cars; the Z, the Roadster, TR-6, even the Miata and others (insert / delete any you feel qualify); also don't want to have a vehicle that masses 4 times our size, feeling that the proper distance to stop from your back bumper is when they can't see you over the hood.

There are HUNDREDS of other vehicles manufactured outside the U.S. that we will never see here. The laws that specify minimum performance ratings in various accidents are the reason you can't import them. Does each vehicle have to be designed to stop a nuclear blast?

As a country we do this to ourselves and then bemoan the fact that we find ourselves so constrained in what we do.

We want bigger trucks and all sort of pleasure vehicles, yet, since we're not willing to explore our own oil reserves, we'll hock ourselves to countries that nationalized our oriignal investment in setting them up to export the oil. Then they hold the price over our heads if we begin to show signs of developing other means.

The only way to countenance this, is to seek cheaper fuels, better electricity storage and more efficient and lighter metals.

Ah, well.

Carl, let me know what kind of hate mail you get.

Enrique

[Fun_in_my_z]

*you happen to see me on the road and decide to flip me off, well do yourself a favor and do it from behind me *

Why it wont catch a z

[Bambikiller240]

I very much agree with this. However, you're going to have a hard time selling that to people, as has been stated, with the means to buy such vehicles. Not until it affects their process to get the means, or they are restricted will you get them to agree to limit or reduce the "whateverness" that draws people to these machines..................snip

Carl, let me know what kind of hate mail you get.

Enrique

Tax the living $hit out of them. Unless you can prove (and I mean REALLY PROVE) that you NEED a vehicle that gets such poor fuel mileage. If a person cannot prove a real need for the vehicle, tack A 50% - 75% luxury tax on the purchase and double the annual license renewal fees, bridge tolls, tollway fees, etc. I don't know how it could be managed, but I'd support charging them triple the standard gasoline taxs each time they purchased fuel.

I am sure there are folks who need them (and those that can PROVE the need should be exempted from the above measures), but I can tell you that in the area I live in i bet that 90% of the Hummers never, ever see off road usage, and probably only see snow on "all weather" Highway 80 (a misnomer) to Reno, or HWY50 to Tahoe. In the morning you can sit at the gate to Ruby Hill ( a private gated-community for the weathy) a watch Hummer after Hummer after Hummer leave with a single passenger headed to work in Silicon Valley, or a Mom with a handful of kids (2-3) being chauffered to school.

I don't know if it is normal ( or less, or more) elsewhere. but our local Hummer dealer has around 40 of them in stock most of the time.

Enrique, I haven't gotten any hate mail yet but maybe I should ask Mike for more storage before they start coming in.

[Fun_in_my_z]

No Hate mail from me. Ought to be a law agaisnt building ugly cars.

[Go240Zags]

I kind of like the looks of the H2, but it is still a Poser vehicle. It doesn't climb any better than the Chevy it's based on and uses an obscene amount of gas. If we decided to go cold turkey on foreign oil and drilled the 6 months supply of oil in ANWAR. We will be back on the foreign oil tit in no time. I know a guy who has a cattle ranch and he owns two Hummers (the originals). He drives them on his ranch and to town. They climb like a goat and I admit I liked getting a chance to take one through its paces. However, and I think he'd agree with me, they aren't something you want to drive on long trips. Having the tranny sit between you and your passenger makes for great ground clearance, but also a loud, uncomfortable ride going down the highway. My daily driver is a 12 year-old full size, short bed Chevy 4x4. In my job I need a truck that can take me into the hills to report on everything from wildfires to whatever. It goes pretty good in the snow we are having too. The truck only has a V6 and gets about 20 mpg. If I pulled a large boat or a heavy trailer with it I would have went for the V8. So far my alumimum fishing boat and my friends bass boat and the occassional car trailer is all I've had to pull. If I could afford (or fit in) a car like a gas/electric hybrid for the occassions where a truck isn't needed I'd get one. I guess what I am saying is there are reasons to own certain vehicles, if you need a big truck you need one. But to just drive an H2 up and down the freeway as some sort of "bling" factor is IMHO a waste of money and resources. Besides if you use all the gas up, we'll all have to convert our Z's to Veggie Cars and run on fry oil. Might smell good, but poor on performance.

[1 Bravo 6]

Yair Carl,

It's the same down here mate.

I'd be surprised if half the owners of 4by4's even knew HOW to engage 4WD.

The vast majority of them have bloody massive great bull bars that would (and DO) a lot of damage to "normal" vehicles.

A study that was undertaken down here showed that the occupant/s of a car,(driver or passenger) hit side on by a 4WD would, most likely, suffer head injury caused by coming in contact with the 4WD's bull bar .

4WD's are great as recreational vehicles (when used in a responsible manner) and as farm workhorses but they really have no place in the cities and suburbs as daily drivers.

Just thought I'd add my 2 cents worth and lighten the load of hate mail for you Carl, although I doubt I'll get much -------- any hate mail I gat will cost a lot more in postage.

Rick.

[1 Bravo 6]

Ummmmm,

Does anyone remember what this thread was originally about ????????

Rick.