Found a Series 1 240Z, should I get it? (long)

[mr24shoe]

Hi all, new here...

Didn't know where else to post this question, so hope it's ok here...

I'm in KC, MO and I've got a lead on what seems to be a decent deal...I just need some confirmation. Please forgive any bastardization of Zerminology...I've read through these forums as much as time allows in the last couple days...

General info:

The car is a 1791 240Z, Series 1 (man. date of 7/70, vin is HLS30-072XX) (I x'd out the last 2 #'s).

History that I know:

My friend is a mechanic that bought this car in the early 80's from the original owner.

It was originally yellow. He then used it for autocrossing and made some of the associated upgrades (suspension, engine). He also painted it red (lacquer paint)

He sold it to it's current owner in '89 that was a friend of his. This guy also autocrossed it, and made even more of the associated upgrades (more suspension, engine perf.; will list below).

Around '95, the current owner was in the starting stages of "refreshing" the vehicle. As he got in the middle of it, he came across an old Porsche, and all his money went into restoring that.

Here's where it gets interesting (to me anyway).

(remember, this is 95).

The Z was just repainted (red again, enamel paint this time). The original engine was rebuilt by my mechanic friend (2nd owner of vehicle). It's got a different cam in it, 6 into 1 headers, "Triple-SU" carbs (I think that's what they were called), flowmaster 2.5" mandrel bent tubing exhaust, and a bunch of spares.

The interior has "brand new" seat covers. Dash has decent sized cracks in it. Roof liner looks perfect. Steering wheel has some wear, but it's still the original one. Dash is all original, except no radio (just the slot where the radio was...don't know if the original is in the parts pile). Floor boards look great, rust free. The plastic parts in the rear weren't installed, but were cracked. There were no cracks in any of the glass.

Exterior has very little rust on it. I had to look hard to find any, but there was some. Left rear wheel arch has some very minor bubbling under the paint. On the inside of that wheel well (the "dogleg" according to one picture I've found) was rusted pretty good, to the point it was holey. The right-side dog leg appeared to have surface rust, but it didn't seem "deep". The engine bay looked nice, and didn't have the rusted battery tray that seems common. The under carriage also looked clean except bending of that "lip" thing where it looks like it was jacked-up in a hurry (prolly during the autocrosses). There are two minor door-dings (one per side), and the paint above the drivers door handle "ran" (like it was sprayed too thick, and kinda sagged/dripped before it dried)...seems like something that could be rubbed out.

I don't know how many miles are on it (yet...I can't f'n believe I forgot to ask that).

The engine and tranny have been out of the car for 10 years. The car has been sitting in a storage unit for the same amount of time. It was VERY dusty, but you could tell the paint was still very nice. The engine has been sitting in my mech's garage since I've known him...and I've always admired it everytime I go over and have him do work on my vehicles (anything more than basic maintenance).

He'd been asking $3k...I have him down to $2500. I talked my mechanic friend into installing the engine/tranny and getting it running/driving again for $500, so I'd be into it for $3k. Then I'll have to go through and reinstall all the trim pieces, lights, etc. (removed for the repaint). So there'll definitely be some work to do.

My main question...is $3k a good deal? I think it's a "good find" for the actual car, but not sure about price. I thought it was a good deal initially, then I read on here about several folks finding decent shape, already running Z's in the sub-2k range. There was even one about finding one in a chicken coup for very cheap!

Any concerns w/ the "new" engine after it sat for 10 yrs (never started)? How about w/ the car?

I was originally looking at this as an investment opportunity (that I could also have fun with...try that with the stock market). When I first heard about it, I had envisioned an unmolested, almost restored old Z, for around $2k. Now that I have all the info, I still think it may be a decent opportunity, but not as sure anymore. I'm not worried about the amount of time it'd take to get all the accessories back on it, I figure the longer it takes, the more it'll be worth.

Anyway, I'll sit back and absorb your input...and thanks in advance. I'd like to be able to make a decision before Monday. I'll try to get some pics up this weekend.

Mark

Known Upgrades:

Engine:

- Rebuilt

- Triple SU cams (side drafts), I think he may have said "Triple S K Side drafts" is that different?

- Some kind of Cams

- 6-1 header

- 2.5" mandrel bent flowmaster exhaust

Tranny:

- I believe it's the original 4-speed.

- The current owner did have a 5-speed on it, but not sure if that's still available (i'm guessing yes)

Suspension:

- Koni adjustable struts

- Eurothane bushings

- other things that are helpful in autocross (couldn't write fast enough)

Interior:

- New seat covers

- Prolly needs some replacement/refreshed parts

Exterior:

- new paint job

Other:

- Almost literally a ton of extra parts, some I don't even know.

- Some kind of rear axle conversion kit to make the drives perpindicular vs. the current slight 'Y' (so you can put more power to the wheels); not installed

- a set of "lightweight" wheels (no rubber) used in autocross.

- a bunch of other "goodies"

[26th-Z]

This sounds like a pretty good deal. You are always going to hear about someone who found a better car for less, but this one is in your face right now, not some time in the future - maybe - perhaps a similar car...you know what I'm saying. I might suggest that the 7/70 build date makes it a 1970 model year and would put it right on the edge between the early series one types and the later series one types. A nice car to start with. Regardless of the engine build, verify matching numbers with the VIN plate and you have all the potential for a restoration queen or a nice unique club car.

[MikeW]

I might suggest that the 7/70 build date makes it a 1970 model year and would put it right on the edge between the early series one types and the later series one types.

Strangely enough the VB catalog lists a big gap in dates:

1970 (10/69-5/70) 00013-21000

1971 (1/71-8/71) 21001-46000

1972 (9/71-6/72) 46001-120000

I that realize the accuracy of this information is suspect but it is interesting nonetheless.

[mr24shoe]

I read somewhere in these forums, or a linked page, that there was some overlap between the manuf. date, and the actual title date.

IIRC, the latest 1970 was manuf. 9/70, and the earliest 1971 was 7/70 (according to that info). Yes, this falls even earlier w/ the manuf. date, so maybe it is in fact a '70? I just wonder because both my mech friend, and the current owner state '71. We'll see I guess!

*update*

here's the link:

http://zhome.com/History/1970or1971.html

[MikeW]

Yes, according to http://zhome.com/History/DesignChanges.htm :

HLS30 006072 06 Lowest VIN# Sold/Titled As A 1971 Model Year Car

HLS30 011618 10 Highest VIN# Sold/Titled As A 1970 Model Year Car

Therefore HLS30 072XX is somewhere in the middle.

[Bambikiller240]

If the car has been sitting unused for 10 years, the brake system (hoses, cylinders, etc) will likely need serious attention. Brake fluid absorbs water and that will corrode the master and wheel cylinders. Flexible hoses (rubber) will rot as well.

I'd be suprised if tyou can get it assembled and running safely for just $500. But maybe you can with a "friend discount" on labor.

You might want to confirm what carbs are on this car also. Usually if the Z car has "SU" carbs, it will have 2 of them (Dual SU's), Usually if a Z car has "triple" carbs, they are Weber's, Mikuni's, or some other brand.

[Marty Rogan]

First of all, it sounds like an interesting find and the price does not sound too bad.

Secondly, if you are buying it as an investment, forget about it. You will spend tons and tons of money getting this car into "investment quality" condition. Usually, you never get back what you have put into an old car. That is just a well known fact among auto hobbyists. You should buy the car because you like it and would enjoy working on it, or enjoy driving it.

IT sounds a little odd that it has rust in the dogleg and the wheel arch, but is described as having a nice paint job. Did the owner paint over the rust? Or was it stored in a damp garage and rusted after the paint was applied? So, to be nice, and to increase its value, the rust will need to be fixed, and those sections re-painted. Body work is not cheap.

If the rebuilt engine is not the original engine, as confirmed by the plate attached to the strut tower in the engine bay, that knocks at least 20-30% off the value of the car, since it can never be truly "restored" to its original condition.

This sounds like a decent project car, that you can enjoy working on. You may be able to put it back together without having to spend huge amounts of money, as compared to buying a car in worse condition. However, it sounds like a lot of the car is in boxes. If parts are missing, it will cost you to replace them. Parts are getting more and more expensive these days.

Anyway, I don't meant to discourage you. Just buy the car for the right reasons. That you have always liked 240Z's and would enjoy driving it. Yea, its value will go up the longer you have it, provided you keep improving it. It is highly unlikely that you would actually make a profit on it though.

My 2 cents.

Marty

[240znz]

To add to the already great replies above. Out of all the series of the 240z, the series 1 is arguably the most "collectable" version for it is the lightest and the first run ever.

As Carl said, those carbs and more likely to be triple sidedrafts if there are 3. There are a few people who have made triple SU manifolds but very very few. I have triple Mukuni's on my parts car and they have SK printed foil stickers on the right hand throat. So they might be the same. The makers name will be printed on the top cover. Solex = Mukuni, the others are Dellorto and Weber.

Sounds great, go for it, Zeds are wonderful cars that are very rewarding. As above, don't be fooled into thinking that cars are an investment, the amount of money you will need to feed your fever will most likely never come back. But the drive is invaluable.

[mr24shoe]

Actually, that sounds right..He said "Triple SK Sidedrafts" or something like that...is that a good thing, or bad?

[26th-Z]

I don't know what I was thinking when I was talking about "early" and "late" series one types. That was the next year -duh! Sorry. Whatever year it was represented as when it was sold is irrelevant IMO. We are fortunate to have a build stamp on the VIN plate describing what year the car is. Granted, sales representatives titled the cars certain model years, but I don't put a lot of stock in that information as long as there is a build date on the VIN plate.

I agree with Marty's advise. Carl is right on talking about hydraulics.

[mr24shoe]

Oh, and I did confirm that it's a "numbers matching" car (the original engine)...

[texasz]

In my opinion it is a great find but I think the price is too high...but hey, you know what they say about oppinions...