Racing $$$

[Ron Carter]

I agree to the point, but in vintage racing there is no prize money....it is the ego thing, being the winner....not the money.

[Marty Rogan]

SuperDave is right, and that is one reason why I don't race SCCA. There were a few nice people there, but most of them rated a 10 on the Smug Scale. They are so busy making new rules that actually running an automobile race seems like an afterthought.

Hey Sopwith21,

If you are looking for new group to race with, you should look into Midwest Council: http://my.execpc.com/~mcscc/index.html It is made up of 9 Clubs of all volunteers whose sole purpose in life is to get the best racing experience at the cheapest cost.

I have been racing with them for 2 years now and I have found them to be a real friendly group. On the couple of times that I was having car trouble, several people came by to offer help, tools and even Z parts when I needed them. They usually have a nice beer and pizza gathering at the end of the day too.

Don't get me wrong, despite the laid back attitude, these guys are serious about their racing too. The events are very well run and they are going to several new tracks this year.

I see that you are in Indy. That's not to far away. We have people that drive in from St. Louis, Minnesota, Michigan and other far away places.

Can't wait for the racing season to start!!!

Marty

[sopwith21]

I must admit that the Midwestern Council appears to have some GREAT tracks on their schedule. Their 300 page rule book is a bit discouraging, but perhaps they have sensible people who take charge of the rule book instead of the other way around. Looks like a nice outfit though. Didn't see any Z's in GT3/4... what do they run in? IT?

[Bambikiller240]

Next thing ya know, people will be complaining that other drivers TRY too hard to win.

Maybe it's time for the "I'm Out for a Sunday Drive" Racing Series. Napcar could run it.

[Marty Rogan]

I must admit that the Midwestern Council appears to have some GREAT tracks on their schedule. Their 300 page rule book is a bit discouraging, but perhaps they have sensible people who take charge of the rule book instead of the other way around. Looks like a nice outfit though. Didn't see any Z's in GT3/4... what do they run in? IT?

The rule book does look pretty daunting, but you have to realize that it has to cover a wide range of cars, W2W and autocross. The part that applies to your car is a lot shorter. It's focus is safety and fair competition. MC has decent tech inspectors. Again, the focus of MC is to have fun racing, at a low cost. It is run by people who enjoy racing, and staffed by volunteers, who are mostly racers themselves. They aren't there to ruin your day, but they do insist on safety for you and the others out on the track with you. I will be running in their Time Attack Autocross in C modified (CM).

I believe the W2W Z's do run in IT. Do you have an SCCA License? I believe they honor that. A great way to check out MC would be to attend one of our 3 driver's schools. The first one is April 9/10, with W2W races on the 10th. They have a mandatory classroom session usually the week prior.

There are several Z's running in MC. I believe I have seen 3-4 W2W racers, and there are about 6 or so running AX.

Come on up and check it out!

Hope to see you at the track. Let me know if you sign up for a date.

Marty

[SuperDave]

Racing is about winning. I think if you are not on the track to go as fast as you can go and make every attempt to win, then you are blocking traffic.

Professional racing is about winning, for sure. But I would hope that club racing also is about good sportsmanship, sharing a love for the sport, for the cars, and having fun. There is still plenty of room for egos and money in club racing. But if it's not fun, those of us who are doing it for fun will look for other places to play.

Aren't there still some of drivers who make every attempt to go as fast as they can, but are STILL blocking traffic? Or who just use poor judgement and put others at risk?

[sopwith21]

Slow cars have their place on the grid. I've whipped many faster cars because their drivers couldn't handle the "traffic blockers" and "moving chicanes." Last year we won a championship because we didn't crash in the rain and the competition did.

Racing is not constituted only of great drivers in expensive, flawless cars on perfectly smooth tracks on sunny days. The slow guys have a race, too, even if its not for first position. And many times the ability to handle traffic with skill determines the outcome of the race.

I, for one, am accustomed to being fast, yet I salute the guys who aren't. The race would not be the same without you. If all you can do is fill the field and have a blast, more power to ya. As long as they drive with consideration for others I have no problem with them at all, and with each passing day I have less respect for the "fast" guys who insult them.

[sopwith21]

Next thing ya know, people will be complaining that other drivers TRY too hard to win.

Never mistake spending for effort, or a credit card for ability.

[26th-Z]

I think we are on the same page, SuperDave. I assure you the professional guys are having fun and doing it for the grins they get from racing. And I guess I should clarify that a bit by excluding NASCAR from my observations. I don't really pay much attention to NASCAR. Its just not my cup of tea. I don't know if those guys are doing it for the fun, but I'll bet they are. None-the-less, I wanted to emphasize the competitive spirit associated with racing when I made my comment. I raced many years ago. I won some and I lost some. I had a blast. Racing sports cars is one of the top three "most fun things you can do with your clothes on". Now, I am spending $$$$ on restoring cars. The game is pretty much the same - without the speed thing.

[Bambikiller240]

Never mistake spending for effort, or a credit card for ability.

In rereading my quoted post I cannot imagine where you get the idea I was refering to "spending" money (in whatever form) when I said "TRY" (as in effort)

But anyway, if I had the $$ to go all out (I don't), there is no reason I that shouldn't. If doing so helps (notice the word HELPS) someone leave you or anyone else in the dust......so be it. 2nd place is first loser, if someone isn't "trying" (theres that word again) to be fast (competitive), they don't belong out there. They should stick to doing track days which are plenty of fun. If the rich boys dominate the racing series, find another one where you are competitive and the use of "cubic dollars" is controlled by the rules. There are (at least in CA) plenty of options to choose from.

[sopwith21]

if I had the $$ to go all out (I don't), there is no reason I that shouldn't. If doing so helps (notice the word HELPS) someone leave you or anyone else in the dust......so be it.

By all means, spend the money if you have it (and my apologies if I misinterpreted a previous comment)! Its the nature of the beast. But its also bad for the sport (see "Racing Cycle of Life").

There will always be more poor people than rich people. Hence, the more expensive the sport gets, the fewer people who can participate. As participation dwindles, the sport dies. So we can claim that money is a part of this sport til we're blue in the face and be completely right... but it won't matter if we're right because we'll be racing alone. Anyone visited CART headquarters lately? (Bring your own key... I hear the door's locked).

F1 gets too expensive, so CART goes road racing and European car manufacturers make a new series. F1 is lucky to get 18 cars in a field... pathetic. Then they begin cannibalizing their own as Ferrari now tries to prevent that bastion of racing greatness, Minardi, from entering a car this year. Brilliant. CART gets too expensive, so the IRL is born and NASCAR flourishes. No one is exempt... even the weekend dirt tracks. The Cycle spares no one.

[Bambikiller240]

I totally understand the life cycle reference that you've made, and I acknowledge that money does get in the way of maintaining good and close racing that can sustain itself over the long haul. The only thing that I diagree with is blaming it on the competitors who take advantage of what is allowed by the rules. IMO the real blame lies squarely at the feet of the sactioning body who creates and enforces the rules.

Oh, there is one more thing I disagree about and that is the bit about "CART gets too expensive so the IRL is born." Tony George created the IRL because the money (and POWER) floating around wasn't going into HIS pocket. All his stories about creating a cost controlled form of open wheel racing, and an opportunity for young American (USAC) drivers have been proven to be nothing more than SMOKE. The engine manufacturers (and their cubic dollars) were welcomed with open arms, and Sarah Fisher (among others) sits on the sidelines, or trots off to NAPCAR just like Jeff Gordon, Tony Stewart, Ryan Newman, et al. He continues to use his families money to prop up the IRL and continues to try to kill OWRS (nee CART)

Whew, gotta stop before my blood pressure rises any further.

Cheers,