Racing $$$

[sopwith21]

The only thing that I diagree with is blaming it on the competitors who take advantage of what is allowed by the rules.

Don't blame them at all. Ya gotta do what ya gotta do to win and I do it myself. But its still bad for the sport.

IMO the real blame lies squarely at the feet of the sactioning body who creates and enforces the rules.

Absolutely. They let it happen and the teams are swept into the ever-escalating financial spiral of death.

Oh, there is one more thing I disagree about and that is the bit about "CART gets too expensive so the IRL is born." Tony George created the IRL because the money (and POWER) floating around wasn't going into HIS pocket. All his stories about creating a cost controlled form of open wheel racing, and an opportunity for young American (USAC) drivers have been proven to be nothing more than SMOKE. The engine manufacturers (and their cubic dollars) were welcomed with open arms, and Sarah Fisher (among others) sits on the sidelines, or trots off to NAPCAR just like Jeff Gordon, Tony Stewart, Ryan Newman, et al. He continues to use his families money to prop up the IRL and continues to try to kill OWRS (nee CART)

El wrongo. I'm closely involved here in Indy with all the above and that t'ain't the way it happened.

CART - for whom my company was a former contractor - became an expensive road racing series for wealthy Europeans. Nothing wrong with that. But all the open wheel oval talent was going to Cup and the Indy 500 was becoming a pawn to CART's interests. Neither was good for the Hulman family. No businessman can permit control of his company to be wrested from him. To expect that of a businessman is sheer lunacy.

So Tony did the only thing possible... he acted to save open wheel racing in America (not CART... open wheel racing from the ground up). He deliberately avoided stepping on CART's race dates and let them run their European road racing show. CART turned around and held the US 500 on the same date at the same time as the Indy 500, thank you so much. We all know how that one ended. They should have done their road racing thing and been content to live and let live, but they goofed. So there never was an Indy car "war." The only war waged was when CART tried to bury the IRL with their US 500. They picked a fight and bankrupted themselves trying to win it.

CART spent themselves into the ground (they still owe my company money) trying to stay afloat. They burned over fifty million in '03 to keep the company in business and had nothing at the end of the year.

Not until CART shot themselves in the foot and went out of business did Tony take any effort whatsoever to consolidate open wheel racing by making a fair bid for the CART name. A court jumped in and stopped the sale and OWRS was born from the ashes of CART's mess. Tony bid fair and square for the St Petersburg race. St Pete could have gone back to OWRS if they had wanted... they didn't. It was a business decision... don't blame Tony. The other IRL road races are at Watkins Glen and Sonoma - tracks that CART didn't run anyway - so there's no valid complaint there either.

Sarah Fisher had a decent shot at Indycar and had she not been a female, she'd have lost her ride much sooner. Its a cold, tough business. She's not a bad driver at all, but she can't say she didn't have a shot. She did. Scott Sharp was in the exact same equipment that she was. She has enjoyed a fine career and was a good and very popular driver. Hundreds of men with equal talent will never be able to say the same thing.

The IRL is still having a hard time stopping the mass exodus of open wheel drivers to Cup, a tough time getting sponsors, and they are far from perfect. But they never tried to kill CART or OWRS. That is patently false. Open wheel racing in America has a future... its not perfect, but its some kind of future, and its because of what Tony did.

[Bambikiller240]

We'll have to agree to disagree. I don't see it as you do.

Open Wheel racing has a future because of what Tony did? Look at the grandstands at ANY of his races (except for Texas) and you'll see far more empty seats than you do seats with butts in them (and No, the people aren't standing either). IRL is now experiencing the exact same cost issues as CART did with the engine mamnufacturers, and the same issues with "foreign talent".

Yes, CART did wizz away obscene amounts of money in 2003 (and YES Chris Pook was in charge when it happened), but IMO he was the guy left holding the bag in his hand after previous management bungled the operation. Roger, Chip, and the other owners who bailed to IRL share in the blame since as owners they held seats on the board of directors and were part and parcel of the series when manufacturers were allowed to come in and go crazy with technology resulting in the high cost of competition.

No doubt that Tony was looking to shore up the value of the Indy 500 for the Hulman family. Has he done it? Hell NO. It's still a shadow of it's former self. No war, huh? Seems to me I remember Tony the Jerk trying to reserve 25 starting positions in the Indy 500 for IRL teams and "allowing" the interlopers to scrap it out for the last 8 spots. That ended up not flying, but he sure as hell tried to get it off the ground. We don't have to worry about that happening now, as they were barely able to find 33 entrants able to qualify in the past 2 years. Most of the Open Wheel talent is STILL going to NAPCAR and elsewhere. What has he done for "open wheel racing from the ground up'? I'd really like to hear that one.

Yes, the US 500 backfired on CART, absolutely no question about that. But, IMO their mistake was in not waiting a year or two or three before trying to go head to head with Indy. That time could have been used in getting their own house in order and getting firm commitments from the board members / teams and would have served CART well, however the greed of the owners (and the mistakes of those they hired to alledgedly run the business) are what put the bullet in CART's foot. Chris Pook let the gangrene travel to CART's heart and it nearly killed the patient. The IRL could very well face the same situation in the near future, since they have allowed Honda and Toyota to bring high technology and huge engine costs into the IRL. If/When they leave (it's already rumored that Toyota will bail once they get the OK to run Nextel Cup, and Chevy is heading out the door too) Tony may be knocking on doors looking for customer engines and funding teams through the backdoor like CART did, and when the engine manufacturers leave the advertising dollars that put the show on TV will disappear just as quickly.

As for OWRS financial footing, the owners have lots of money. It remains to be seen if they will use it or not, and who knows if it would be used wisely.

I'm not concerned with St. Pete, or Watkins Glen, or even Sonoma (although I would have LOVED to see CART in it's Glory years running The Glen). As you say....business decisions, pure and simple. Of course when the IRL was created it was touted as THE Open Wheel All Oval Racing Series for Americans. That story has faded away (conveniently) over the years.

Sorry, this post turned out way longer than I intended. As I said, we'll have to agree to disagree.

Last but not least (and you'll probably hate me for saying this, but.......) if it weren't for the Hulman Family fortune (which he inherited control of) Tony would be managing a Arco Gas Station and Mini-Mart. He's a wizz poor businessman. Always has been, always will be.

[cremmenga]

I know this sounds competative, but I will do anything to whip the asses of the rich little preppy boys driving new corvettes and the Ps. I want to look back on them in my mirorr, and laugh. All in good time fella's, the Z will dominate!!!

[ZedMark]

Chris,

I'm constantly amazed at the BMW's, Mercedes, and yes Corvettes who want to rudely tailgate me on a 55mph highway. That is until we reach the mountain twisties. I downshift and maintain my speed through the first two corners, and that's usually the last I see of them. I'm just talking about speed limit, center of my lane driving without even breaking the tires loose. Funny how none of the other drivers ever try to catch up to praise the performance of a 33-yr. old $500 car. I have seen a couple of drivers pass me afterwards at 85+mph, miles later on a straightaway, only to see them in the next mile or two pulled over by a CHP. That's when the REAL laughs come!

[sopwith21]

No war, huh? Seems to me I remember Tony the Jerk trying to reserve 25 starting positions in the Indy 500 for IRL teams and "allowing" the interlopers to scrap it out for the last 8 spots. That ended up not flying, but he sure as hell tried to get it off the ground.

Funny... no one complained when CART essentially did the same thing without the paperwork. 20+ franchise teams were allowed into CART. If you were rich enough to buy your way in, you earned the most money, rights to the Indycar monicker, the best sponsor deals, official series backing and a virtual lock on the top 25 spots in the Indy 500, and everyone else had to scrap it out for the last 8 or 9 spots. Nobody at CART seemed to mind as long as it worked in their favor.

And the lock for the top 25 worked just fine and did precisely what it was supposed to do. It got the series on its feet and allowed the young teams with less money to survive long enough to establish themselves. When that was accomplished, the rule was no longer necessary. Now CART teams are welcome to fight it out for any of the 33 spots on an equal basis, which is more than they afforded anyone else when they ran the show.

Maybe Tony is a good businessman, maybe he's lousy. What I know is this... we once had 16 top flight open wheel races per year in North America... now we have 32. Open wheel oval drivers once had only one option for their professional careers, now they have two. Once we could only watch open wheel cars on road courses; now we can see them on ovals as well.

If that has ruined the sport, I say we ruin it some more.

[Bambikiller240]

I do not recall CART limiting entrants to any of their races. True a group of owners established CART, but they have always allowed other teams to compete in events. Those teams may not have shared in the power and profit from managing the series and the public sale of stock (which was only good for the franchise owners who wanted to keep thier money AND be able to leave the series) , but they were allowed to enter and compete. I cannot fathom what you are refering to when you talk about "the best sponsor deals" being assured to only certain CART teams. Teams have always competed freely for their own sponsorship, nothing is/was assured to anyone (except by Chris Pook in 2003).

What was CART's "virtual lock on the first 25 spots in the Indy 500". Anyone could enter the show and show up with a car and qualify as best they could. That's far different from a written mandate that you cannot earn a starting place higher than 26th no matter how fast you qualify. Tony put that plan into effect because he KNEW that the CART teams (at that time) were more professional, skilled and knowledgable that the bush league teams he was pimping in the IRL.

I guess it depends on what you call "top flight" races. IMO as an avid fan and very frequent spectator at many races, for many years (been following, and attending regularly since 1974), there are currently FAR less than 32 top flight open wheel races in the USA. Far less than 16, in fact.

As for Tony currently allowing CART teams to fight it out for the 33 starting spots, yes, he allows them to arrive and qualify, but heaven help you if you try to win the event. (Just ask Paul Tracy about that one!) BTW, I am absolutely NOT a P.T. fan grousing because my driver didn't win.

[JLPurcell]

I agree Ron...I always like seeing a Z car leadinging a P car. I just gives me that warm fuzzy feeling. Can you imagine the thoughts going through these Porsche guys mind when a cheap old Z goes flying by them!

Just a little "P" car story. Back in 1976 while atttending my first SCCA drivers school my instructer was Logan Blackburn. On Sunday as we were setting in our cars waiting to go out for the race Logan came over to my window and said "Don't even come back to the pits if you let the "P" cars beat you!". I'm proud to say that I was able to come back to the pits...

[sopwith21]

I'm not a PT fan either, but I hear credible rumors from inside IMS that he did win the race. I believe your gripe may have some validity and if so, its inexcusable. That much I agree with. Of course, in fairness we must also remember that Ganassi did sweep the event in dominant fashion as a CART team.

CART's official franchise teams had monumental advantages, and with rare exceptions they dominated the top 22-26 positions of the 500 for twenty years. The only difference is that they took the top 25 spots with self-granted internal advantages and massive finances, while the IRL just wrote it down. Let's not pretend that one is more noble than the other.

there are currently FAR less than 32 top flight open wheel races in the USA. Far less than 16, in fact.

Then why support CART? It was little more than a retirement home for washed up F1 drivers and a training ground for the wannabe's. If you're that picky, just trash all the North American open wheel racing and watch F1. And cut F1 in half... there's no sense in having Minardi around since they're not top flight. Jordan and Toyota can be dropped, too. For a real top flight race, all you need is Ferrari, BAR and Renault. Of course, we'll only want the number one driver... no sense messing with the second rate guys. So there we go! Sixteen three car races. Absolutely top flight.

C'mon... be serious. We have more good, fun open wheel racing in North America now than we've had in decades. The races are good, the equipment is good, the drivers are good. How is this a bad thing?

[Bambikiller240]

Of course CART dominated Indy for 20+ years. After 1982, who was there to compete against them? USAC rolled over and played dead as far as the National Championship was concerned. The teams either joined CART or went out of business.

Frankly, I am no longer a staunch supporter of CART (OWRS) but it took me a long time to stop supporting them. They started losing my support when poor officiating (Kneifel's) caused the races to be hindered by so many caution laps that the races became boring (in person) and could no longer fit into the alotted TV time slots (2001-2002), and it became apparent that they were bleeding the company dry (2003). The last CART events that I attended were in 2002. I did "try" to view the 2003 series via TV, but frequently did not view the complete events (see above). I watched the Long Beach race in 2004 (on TV) and was so disappointed with the coverage that I never made an attempt to watch another race. In fact, I watched more than one IRL race last year, but I didn't enjoy them very much either.

I watch (often having to get up at 4AM to do so) EVERY F1 Practice, Qual and Race, all season long. Thank GOD for the Aussie, Malasian, China, Japan, and Brazilian, and USA, and Canadian races, so I can sleep in! True, Minardi and Jordan are bottom feeders, but Jordan (Shnaider owned now) wasn't always there. Toyota is getting an education in what it takes to compete, and will (if they don't bail like Ford/Jaguar) raise their game in due time.

No seconds? There goes the "team driver" strategy. Which 3 drivers would you cut loose from Andretti/Green? (financed largely by Honda through the back door)

As for good Open Wheel races in the US, we do have some of them, but the best of them aren't in the IRL (or OWRS) at the moment. IMO they are in World of Outlaws, Midgets, Sprints, and Siver Crowns. (in no particular order)

Good equipment? In the Injury Racing League? I don't know about that. Fortunately they did finally make them safer by limiting HP via reduced displacement and the chassis rules put in place last year.

[260DET]

One thing that strikes me about motorsport in the US is the sheer variety and choice available. And the venues

Here the V8 Supercars suck up nearly all the dollars, everything else is struggling, including the viability of club racing circuits. The single GP and Indy events are just once a year tourist things, they do nothing otherwise.

[SuperDave]

Of course CART dominated Indy for 20+ years....

The pinnacle for CART, or for any open-wheel racing in the U.S., as I experienced it, was the 1993 season when Nigel Mansell won the championship. In late stages of the Indy 500 there were 8 cars with a shot at winning. Then in 1994 when Dennis Vitolo (hard-working family man but who Danny Sullivan described on the air as "just horrible") wrecked Mansell in the pit exit road, Mansell just seemed to lose his fire. Tony George then accelerated their downfall. The final straw for CART for me was when Chip Ganassi fired Memo Gidley, a talented young driver and a great guy. At least Gidley now has a Daytona Prototype ride.

[Bambikiller240]

One thing that strikes me about motorsport in the US is the sheer variety and choice available. And the venues

Here the V8 Supercars suck up nearly all the dollars, everything else is struggling, including the viability of club racing circuits. The single GP and Indy events are just once a year tourist things, they do nothing otherwise.

I guess we do have more choices than some other countries, but......

Well, in the USA, NASCAR (i call it NAPCAR) sucks up a large amount of the sponsorship and fan dollars, leaving precious little for all of the other series to scrap over.

The pinnacle for CART, or for any open-wheel racing in the U.S., as I experienced it, was the 1993 season when Nigel Mansell won the championship. In late stages of the Indy 500 there were 8 cars with a shot at winning. Then in 1994 when Dennis Vitolo (hard-working family man but who Danny Sullivan described on the air as "just horrible") wrecked Mansell in the pit exit road, Mansell just seemed to lose his fire. Tony George then accelerated their downfall. The final straw for CART for me was when Chip Ganassi fired Memo Gidley, a talented young driver and a great guy. At least Gidley now has a Daytona Prototype ride.

I certainly agree that Memo didn't seem to get a fair shake in Ganassi's team.