gotta sell my 69 fairlady

[NovaSS]

5 Speed ratios for 1969 & 1970 Fairlady Z-L model ( FS5C71-A transmission ):

1st = 2.957

2nd = 1.858

3rd = 1.311

4th = 1.000

5th = 0.852

R = 2.922

Diff ratio = 3.9:1

You keep making the assertion that a 5 speed transmission was fitted to "cover the lack of performance over the 240Z". I'd like to remind you that the Fairlady Z 432 and 432R both had exactly the same transmission ratios as the Z-L, and were rated at 160ps ( ie - more peak power than the HLS30-U ), as did the other non-USA market HLS30 models and HS30 models - which like the HLS30-U had the L24 engine. They were certainly not fitted with the overdrive 5 speed to cover any lack of performance, were they?

No I dont keep making the assertion, I keep asking questions ( notice the question mark in my reply ) to better understand something Im not very familure with. Im am not an expert on Datsun Z cars, that is why I came here to ask questions.

[26th-Z]

Once again, our discussions have turned into the sharing of informative, factual accounting about our beloved in a world environment and not just the "relevant" market. Thanks. I am enjoying this chat. I think the point we are missing about the four speed transmission in the American market is that it didn't matter. The Datsun 240Z (HLS30U) didn't need a five speed transmission to BLOW off the competition - two time national champion in the first two years since introduction. Whether or not the American market was sophisticated enough to demand a five speed is irrelevant. The 240Z surpassed everything in its class and kept up with sports cars well outside it's class (read Corvette) perfectly without any perceived performance enhancement of a five speed - close ratio or not. In 1970, Americans were lucky to get a four speed. Most everything from Detriot that closely resembles the Datsun 240Z class came with three-speeds. The HLS30U / 240Z was so perfectly suited to the American market that it sold in droves propelling it to fame. If you think about it, a 432 Fairlady would have been dangerous. It is a GOOD thing that Americans got four speeds!

All in the best of fun,

Chris

[HS30-H]

.....The Datsun 240Z (HLS30U) didn't need a five speed transmission to BLOW off the competition - two time national champion in the first two years since introduction.

26th-Z,

Slightly off topic but...

Are you referring to the BRE SCCA C-Production cars here?

I recall reading that they were using a 5 speed overdrive transmission ( the FS5C71-A ) on the BRE car(s). Was that legal under C-Production rules?

[Bambikiller240]

I think the point we are missing about the four speed transmission in the American market is that it didn't matter. The Datsun 240Z (HLS30U) didn't need a five speed transmission to BLOW off the competition - two time national champion in the first two years since introduction. Whether or not the American market was sophisticated enough to demand a five speed is irrelevant.

The wishes of a vocal segment of the Sports car market (who gladly payed premium $$ over MSRP for the priviledge of owning a Z) is irrelevent?

Sounds like the sort thinking of the US automakers that put them in the position to lose a lot of sales to a car company like Nissan which was perceived as delivering more "bang for the buck".

In 1970, Americans were lucky to get a four speed. Most everything from Detriot that closely resembles the Datsun 240Z class came with three-speeds.

The Ford Pinto of the same period had a 4 Speed. (I'm not saying it's in the same class as a 240Z, I considered it an economy car; which IMO is LESS than a 240Z)

[hls30.com]

It's Ok Carl,

We all know you secretly administrate at www.fordpinto.com!

I must admit it is very unlike your persona here to hide and make excuses for it thought! :disappoin

Ok my vacation from reality is now over!

I think the 240Z was simply "clearly the superior product", and Nissan did what most companys do: If it is working don't fix it. We have 4speeds, they are buying as many as we can turn out, and you want us to make a change? When we run out, or the price of five speeds drop to equal or less than four speeds, then, we will do something different. I don't think anythiong was irrelevant except the seemingly forgotten fact that what was done worked better than anything else to that point!

That said, I am glad several of you are educating NovaSS, and the rest of us about his car. I am in the same boat with 26thZ.

WIll

[Bambikiller240]

You are right Will.

From a Nissan "bean counter's" standpoint there was no reason for them to "improve" the product beyond what was already selling so briskly that they could not supply the demand.

From an enthusiast's stand point it would have been grand to CRUSH the competition, rather than just BEAT them.

[Bambikiller240]

It's Ok Carl,

We all know you secretly administrate at www.fordpinto.com!

I must admit it is very unlike your persona here to hide and make excuses for it though! :disappoin

Not a moderator, but I DID own a 71 Pinto with 2.0L German Ford OHC, and 4 Speed Trans. Drove the Pi$$ out of it for 3 years until I got my first Z, then used as a commuter car while I worked on upgrading the Z several times.

[hls30.com]

I knew it a closet(dare I say Garage) pinto fanatic!

That explains a lot...Ooh-now I understand about the sheep and the motorbike!

Nissan already had a winner, and diid not have the luxury of hindsight, they didn't dare fix what Mr. K. broke for them...

Will

[Bambikiller240]

But it wouldn't have taken hindsight when (early on) the clamor arose. Foresight would have done the trick.

I still have a set of Pinto wheels in the garage that would look great on one of your Z's. I think the bolt pattern is right too.

[sblake01]

I knew it a closet(dare I say Garage) pinto fanatic!

That explains a lot...Ooh-now I understand about the sheep and the motorbike!

Nissan already had a winner, and diid not have the luxury of hindsight, they didn't dare fix what Mr. K. broke for them...

Will

Hey! I owned a Pinto too. But seriously, the second part of your post is quite accurate. Look what happened when they tried to 'fix' it. The car became heavier and and more 'Americanized' over the years. I love my 280 but I understand that the philosophy had changed considerably by then. And then, the ZX.........

[hls30.com]

Carl,

I would hate to feel that I have deprived you of merging your secret love of the Ford Pinto and your well documented love of the 240Z by taking the very wheels you have obviously saved all of these years for your own car ! While I appreciate the jesture, I simply could not accept a gift you treasure so much :stupid: ! Now the Rewinds you bought to use to keep the Pinto wheels pristine, well, that's another story ! I would be happy to accept those wheels, I would even send you a set of western mags just to make sure your beloved Pinto wheels didn't have to speen too much time on the street when the weather was bad, and the babes weren't watching :rambo: ! I know the patern is right there :cheeky: !

Will

[Bambikiller240]

I was shocked to find those Pinto wheels last week. I thought I had sold off all of that stuff 20 years ago. Found some old Toyota PU wheels as well, and a nice set of 14" Ansen Sprint Z car 5 Slots with center caps.

Sorry the Rewinds are spoken for. They're MINE!