Thinking of installing an 81-83 5 speed

[dogma420]

He actually meant the SHORTER throw out collar of the 280...its shorter.

If you install the 240 throw out and bearing, the clutch will be disengaged all the time no matter if you press the clutch in or not. Trust me I did this and learned the hard way.

The 280 clutch/pressure plate are larger in width, so when the longer 240z collar is used, its pressing the clutch in without even touching the pedal, so 100% of the time the car acts like you have the clutch pedal pushed on.

Use a 73-78 slave cylinder auto adjust---this requires a fork that matches the self adjusting rod of this slave....it doesn't have a hold for the rod to go through. the self adjust will save you, and its more like a modern car!

[dogma420]

Woops, I mean Marty said the wrong thing....

<But if I keep the 240 clutch pressure plate and disk, and use the longer 280 collar, that would be a mismatch of the parts.>

You should say SHORTER 280 collar marty, then it should make sense. The 240 is longer cause the clutch width is shorter, and the 280 is shorter, cause the clutch assy width is wider.

[Victor Laury]

But Dave, in your case you used the 280 clutch components and therefore needed to use the shorter 280 T/O collar.. right?

If I were (and I did) install a ZX 5 speed on my L24 which was equipped with the original clutch, I would need to use the longer 240 collar.

True?

[Bambikiller240]

But if I keep the 240 clutch pressure plate and disk, and use the longer 280 collar, that would be a mismatch of the parts.

Marty

Marty: That is a correct statement. You would NOT want to do that!

There are two (semi separate) issues to be concerned with when changing from a 240Z Clutch and or Trans to a 280Z/ZX Clutch and/or Trans

1. Fork and Slave cylinder must match each other:

both 70-72,

or both 73-78, 79-83 Non Turbo)

2. Clutch Disc, Pressure Plate, and Throw-Out Bearing Collar must all match:

70-74;

OR 75-78 Coupe, Non Turbo ;

OR 75-78 2+2, 79-83 2+2, 82-83 Turbo

Victor: That is a correct statement YOU would want to do that. (I unsderstand that you DID do it)

[Marty Rogan]

Thank you Carl,

You get the prize for reading what I actually said.

I understand now.

I might not be getting the fork and throw-out bearing collar from the 280Z. Won't know till I pick it up. So I wanted to be sure that I could use what I have. Besides, the clutch that is in there has pretty low miles on it, so why just throw it away.

So, for now I will keep all the parts from the 240Z (except the trans). When that clutch wears out, I 'll swap everything over to 280Z parts.

It's good to know that you can swap over to the self adjusting slave (if you have the right fork). That' just one less thing to mess with.

Thanks again,

Marty

[dogma420]

Marty said:
But Dave, in your case you used the 280 clutch components and therefore needed to use the shorter 280 T/O collar.. right?

If I were (and I did) install a ZX 5 speed on my L24 which was equipped with the original clutch, I would need to use the longer 240 collar.

True?

Yes, True. I used the 280 components because the fork on my 4 speed was kinda messed up, and the tranny I got had a perfect condition fork/throw out bearing already attached...so I just used what it came with...I'd be surprised if whoever you got it from removed it.

[vissan]

I have a 1974 260z with 4spd tranny, I'm considering about swapping it out for a 5 spd tranny from a 1988 Nissan 240sx. If anyone has done this before please give me some advice..Is it compatible?

thanks

[dogma420]

vissan--

Start a new thread; adding a different topic (however similiar) to an old thread is bad ediquette.

[Carl Beck]

I am preparing to put a "78 5 Spd into my early '71. I have already obtained a shifter, with the proper bends to avoid hitting the trans tunnel.

One thing that I need to confirm, is what clutch slave to use. From what I have researched so far, I believe I should keep the 240Z adjustable slave, correct??? I am keeping the 240Z clutch/throw-out bearing.

TIA,

Marty

Hi Marty:

I don't believe you can't make the Type A clutch fork work with the Type B 5spd. The two forks are different lengths and the absolute position of the pivot in the two transmissions are in different places in relative space.

I may be remembering this incorrectly.. but there are several things going on when it comes to getting the right combination of parts related to these tranny swaps.

The "original" Pressure Plate used in the 70-73 240-Z was actually the thickest. That is to say that the distance measured between the flywheel (with no clutch plate installed) to the top of the fingers on the Pressure Plate is the greatest of any of the Pressure Plates. Thus the Throw-out Bearing Collar from the Type A tranny, in the 70/71 240-Z's is the SHORTEST of them all. (see below URL).

With the switch to the Type B 4 spd., came the switch to the self adjusting clutch, and in turn a shorter clutch fork (which changes the amount of movement at the Throw-out bearing...so the Type B 4speed used the longest Throw-out bearing collar. All this to say that it matters which Transmission Type you are starting the swap with - as well as what you are swapping in.

The 280Z Pressure Plate, while providing higher clamping force, is actually thinner - and therefore the throw-out bearing collar is longer that the original 240-Z throw-out bearing collar in the Type A trannys.

Shorter/Longer than what? There are at least four common different lengths of throw-out bearing collars that you can run into, plus a couple more that are uncommon but were used in some cars. Collar length isn't the only consideration - the placement of the "ears" on the collar matter as well as that is where the clutch fork meets the collar.

The clutch forks from the Type A and Type B tranny are a different over-all length. So you can't just fill the hole in a Type A Fork - and use it with a self adjusting slave cylinder.

To make matters worse - if you order a Pressure Plate for a 240-Z today - you will most likely get the 280Z Pressure Plate anyway, because they haven't supplied the original height Pressure Plates for the 240-Z's years.. Believe it or not, a 12/69 production car that I have, still has it's original clutch and pressure plate installed.

If you are using after-market parts it gets even more complex because the height of the Pressure Plate Fingers can vary quite a bit among them. Most of them list the same part number for all L24/L28's... and a few still list different part numbers for the L24, L26 and L28 (but out of the box they might still all be the same).

The general advice that say's use all the components from your 240, or all the components from the 280/280ZX is the safest thing to do - if you are swapping a type "B" 4 speed for a Type "B" 5 speed. If you have a Type "A" 4 speed at present, and you are installing a Type "B" 5 speed.. use all the components from the Type B 5 speed.

KEEP ALL THE PARTS FROM EACH TRANNY AT DIFFERENT ENDS OF THE GARAGE - AND MARK THEM AS THEY COME OUT - magic marker of masking tape - BUT DON'T LOSE TRACK OF EXACTLY WHAT IS WHICH!

Then if you must - change the clutch out - compare the new parts you get with the original parts that worked... Lay the Pressure Plates on a flat surface and carefully measure the distance from the surface to the Pressure Plate fingers... make sure the new and old are the same height. If they are not, you will have to exchange the new pressure plate... or find the correct throw-out bearing collar to match that new Pressure Plate.

See: <a href=http://www.zparts.com/zptech/articles/trans_swap%20parts/4tobear_specs1.html TARGET=NEW>http://www.zparts.com/zptech/articles/trans_swap%20parts/4tobear_specs1.html</a>

I repeat:

EEP ALL THE PARTS FROM EACH TRANNY AT DIFFERENT ENDS OF THE GARAGE - AND MARK THEM AS THEY COME OUT - magic marker of masking tape - BUT DON'T LOSE TRACK OF EXACTLY WHAT IS WHICH!

If you keep track of everything carefully - you have some hope of correcting any small problems that come up - but you have to have FACTS carefully recorded.

good luck,

Carl B.

Clearwater, FL USA

http://ZHome.com

[240ZMan]

As someone who put an '82 5 speed in his '73, I'll point out that another benefit of the later 5 speeds ('80-'83) is that 3rd is closer (ratio-wise) to 2nd than with the earlier 5 speeds and 4 speeds. This means you won't see your revs drop so much on the 2/3 upshift.

[jmortensen]

I don't believe you can't make the Type A clutch fork work with the Type B 5spd. The two forks are different lengths and the absolute position of the pivot in the two transmissions are in different places in relative space.

I don't think that's right. I've got the adjustable slave and throwout fork (I believe these were Type A only) on my 80 ZX 5 speed. Works just fine. I've had the non adjustable fork and the adjustable right next to each other and was unable to distinguish a difference aside from the holes in the adjustable fork that aren't there in the non-adjustable one. I for one really like having the adjustable clutch.

As someone who put an '82 5 speed in his '73, I'll point out that another benefit of the later 5 speeds ('80-'83) is that 3rd is closer (ratio-wise) to 2nd than with the earlier 5 speeds and 4 speeds. This means you won't see your revs drop so much on the 2/3 upshift.

This is very true! Especially if you have an aftermarket cam and make your power up top, that drop in rpms between 2nd and 3rd can be brutal when you're racing. I had situation with my old roommate where we had very equal handling cars, had about the same power to weight ratios, but he had a cammed 510 with Mikunis and a 280Z 5 speed. We went to the track and when we'd hit the main straight at the top of 2nd I'd jump past him when he shifted to 3rd. I gave him a closer ratio trans to fix that issue and we were neck and neck again after he got rid of the 280Z unit.

[montoya_fan01]

I don't think that's right. I've got the adjustable slave and throwout fork (I believe these were Type A only) on my 80 ZX 5 speed. Works just fine. I've had the non adjustable fork and the adjustable right next to each other and was unable to distinguish a difference aside from the holes in the adjustable fork that aren't there in the non-adjustable one. I for one really like having the adjustable clutch.

Actually, there was an "adjustable" fork/slave used on 1972 240Zs with the Type "B" trans. (at least the early 72's, but possibly the later ones too)

I'm not 100% sure, but I don't think the fork used on Type "A" trans can be made to work with the later "B" transmission

FWIW, the "non adjustable" fork/slave is actually "self adjusting".