Any ZCCA Judges in the house?

[26th-Z]

Marty,

Stock says "as it left the factory". Whatever that means. Stock has to be the most impossible class to judge. No one really knows how it really left the factory. We can get pretty close, but "what part went on what car" is a trivia game we all get stumped on all the time. IMO Stock Class allows no modifications, you just get point deductions.

Everyone,

In other classes, I think it is appropriate to ask for a modification rather than take the point deduction on certain items. Read those rules very carefully. Take the scoring sheets and judge your own car or get some friends to pick at it.

I wish more of the judging guys would jump in here. Judging is so subjective. You have to be picky. There are really nice cars out there and deciding which one is nicer is quite difficult. It is a lot like racing competition in that for any given show, your car may win depending on the competition.

[TomoHawk]

I think it would be of interest to go look at aaca.org They have a comprehensive judging manual, but I dunno if it's really relative to Z cars.:

http://www.aaca.org/judging/AntiqueAutoClub_2005Manual.pdf

Vicky- I haven't been able to find any judging information on ZCCA.org- Can you post a link, or some pointers to info?

I have a text file I got from ZCCA a few months ago, which I posted in the tech articles section.

thx

[Marty Rogan]

Chris,

Thanks for that clarification. Obviously in my case, that color is not as it left the factory. Its good to know that it would not keep me out of the stock class. I imagine it would be a big deduction though. And from pictures that I have seen, the competition at that level is pretty stiff. Enough to not place, I am sure.

If I made it over to the Nationals, I guess I would be better off in the Daily Driver Class. It's a shame they don't judge the engine bay in that class. That is best part of my car. I have detailed it pretty well, right down to the correct CAD plating and hoses. Kats has been my inspiration there. His car and mine are the same blue on blue color combo and built fairly close together.

Oh well, I am not likely to repaint it the correct color for quite some time. In the mean time it still does quite well in the local shows.

Cheers,

Marty

[Zrush]

Vicky- I haven't been able to find any judging information on ZCCA.org- Can you post a link, or some pointers to info?

thx

Sure Tomo, I tried to post the direct link to the rules, but it didn't work, at least for me so here's the path...

Click the link www.zcca.org then z cars, motorsports, carshows, then the ZCCA rules.

Vicky

[dogma420]

just wondering, I'm a Portland Oregon zed freak...what local club with ZCCA would I join?

Thanks in advance,

[TomoHawk]

Here's the link to the pdf (Adobe Acrobat) document on ZCCA car judging:

http://www.zcca.org/downloads/JudgingRules_rev2002.pdf

[Bambikiller240]

http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16320&page=2&pp=15 Post 29

It was here all the time.

[26th-Z]

Marty,

I cruised your gallery and looked at the blue car. I'll bet it is close to stock - you and I have competed for parts! The car looks real nice. Real nice. As I said, judging is very subjective and I don't know what you might encounter in the stock class. I think the front spoiler would kick you out and the wheels might do it as well. The best I could say is that I know plenty of guys who are better at it than me!

Judging is a great way to look closely at cars. For me, it is quite the restoration education as I get to see many different techniques and treatments. You pick up all kinds of tips! Read through the ZCCA manual and you will see the ZCCA program for getting certified. The more we become involved and educate ourselves, the more fun we can have with our cars.

Chris,

Thanks for that clarification. Obviously in my case, that color is not as it left the factory. Its good to know that it would not keep me out of the stock class. I imagine it would be a big deduction though. And from pictures that I have seen, the competition at that level is pretty stiff. Enough to not place, I am sure.

If I made it over to the Nationals, I guess I would be better off in the Daily Driver Class. It's a shame they don't judge the engine bay in that class. That is best part of my car. I have detailed it pretty well, right down to the correct CAD plating and hoses. Kats has been my inspiration there. His car and mine are the same blue on blue color combo and built fairly close together.

Oh well, I am not likely to repaint it the correct color for quite some time. In the mean time it still does quite well in the local shows.

Cheers,

Marty

[TomoHawk]

Those classes are general enough for just about any car to fit in there somewhere, but they are also strict enough for some little thing to push your car to a different class that you didn't intend to be in. For me, I have had to replace some components that no longer worked properly with new ( or newer) things to do the job, because I couldn't find a replacement or one that wasn't outrageously expensive. I'm not really interested in 'competing' for stuff, but it's sometimes annoying when somebody points out, "that wasn't the original part."

So what. It got the car running reliable, safe and it's not a pain to operate. I keep the show cars on a shelf in the living room.

[gnosez]

Okay, let's try and start from the beginning, where in all Zs were created as "stock". Then things happened and it was no longer stock. Why, because someone added (or took away) parts that weren't there when it came off the assembly line ( nother major point as stock does not, repeat, does not include dealer options, unless you can show a factory build sheet with the mods listed).

And yes, stock is the hardest class to score high points in and judge. You can enter any Z in stock class but if you have more than 3-5 mods you'd lose too many points to be competitve with other "stock" owners.

And no, there is no tie breaker with door bolts lining up. A tie is just that a tie, more than one car can win the same trophy (1st, 2nd, and 3rd place).

As stated earlier, a clean car wins, period. Attention to detail in both the correct parts, how you put on the mods, and how clean they are determines if your car has a high score.

Now, as to what counts as a modification, that's simple. If it isn't stock for that model and year than anything you replace it with is a mod. For example, you install new wheels and tires, how many mods is that? The nitpicky answer is three (3). Wheels, tires, and lugnuts.

I've been away but will try and monitor this thread closer for the next few days if there are any more questions. Hope this helps.....

[TomoHawk]

And no, there is no tie breaker with door bolts lining up.

Actually, yes, there is, but probably not in ZCCA judging. More like antique & custom cars, where there is only one trophy for each place. I have seen it first hand at these car shows, and heard of it from the owners. Sometimes you even see the same cars at a string of car shows, so they get more particular about what was deducted the last time. I'm not sure it was something like door bolts, but something more prominent. Some kinds of things are actually expected to be aligned. Not just bolts- park plug wires need to be run in a certain way, electrical wires, fuel lines...

thx

[26th-Z]

Good to see you, gnosez! You might want to comment about modifications in the Street Modified Class (up to 15 visible modifications). I think that class is where there is a lot of interest and attendance. When the rules say something is OK, does that mean it is not counted as a modification? For instance, any exhaust system with mufflers is OK. Does that include headers? Any exterior paint color is OK, but what about engine paint or suspension paint? How do you consider chrome plating and special polishing?We need a better example than wheels and tires. They are allowed in all the modifed classes.

Let me clarify that for 240Z stock, dealer installed A/C is allowed, however the hardware is pretty well defined.

Why don't we make some comments about presenting a car for judging. Common car etiquette. Talking to judges during the event. Displays. What tips could car owners do to help judges? What do you find, gnosez, that helps a car / entrant during a show?

Thanks for jumping in