What is the most important thing in the Stock class?

[kats]

Hello,

I had a very good time in the national convention last year in L.A.I wanted to enter the stock class as I did same in 2000 Las vegas convention.But there was a mistake,all the 17 Japanese owners were entered in the daily driver class.It was an accident.But I do not know exactly what was going on.

For me,it was a disappointment because I prepared a lot for this convention and I think I did good job on my 240Z.But it is O.K.,because I have been taking my 240Z on the road very often since the restoration have completed in 2000.Now my Z's ODO got 19,990miles on it in 5 years.I drove my Z in the rain,snow little bit,I always enjoy the driving.

Sometimes I think if I entered in the stock class,could I win in that class?

The answer is I do not think I could win.

Because my Z is not as clean as the cars are in the stock class.Bob's car and Dan's car are very beautiful and clean.And,my exterior is not an original paint.That blue metallic is for R34-Skyline GTR.This is a big problem in the stock class.

(But I feel great,I like the color very much.Someday my Z needs repaint,I of course stick to the blue #903)

26th-Z,do you remember I gave a list to you,it describes what I did and how many periodically correct parts are installed on my car.The reason I made a list is if I did not say it,I was not sure the judges would pay attention to these parts or not.(anyway I was not in the stock class).

I know the point deduction system.But I feel something un-clear about what is the most important thing in the stock class?

The cleanness? Exactly correct parts?

There is no question about the best car is,a car have all clean OEM parts and bolts and nuts like new(of course they are all periodically correct),and even if all the clean OEM parts and bolts and nuts have not been replaced since the car had left from the factory,that is perfect!!

My Z has many "not clean parts".I hesitate to remove strut tower trims because they are 35 years old,came from the factory.I love them even they got cracks and are dirty.

But we do not see many such perfect cars.What I am trying to say is,to judge which car is more close to the sotck winner,what point is the most important thing?In this point deduction system,it seems to me cleanness comes first,like 26th-Z said.

I paid a lot of attention of these periodically correct parts,but they do not make any Advantages in the point deduction system.Even my 240Z's parts can get deduction due to deterioration of surface condition.

I think the following parts are the same value in the point deduction system if they both are clean.(I am talking about 03/1970 model)

1.Badges/the ones are all plastic,but the others are all metal.Do the judges mind it?

2.D hub caps/the ones have later production style tabs,but the others have earliest big tabs.Do the judges mind it?

3.Front bumper and brackets/the one has later style which got two bolts on left and right for front side bracket,but the other has early style which got one bolt on left and right for front side bracket.Do the judges mind it?

4.Bumper overrider rubber/the ones have currently available bolted style,but the others have earliest rubber nipple style.Do the judges mind it?

5.Steering lock mechanism/the one has currently available style,it's cylinder is relatively fat and a beeper switch is on the entrance of a key,but the other has early style which got narrower cylinder and a beeper switch is in the middle,right hand side.Do the judges mind it?

6.Fuel reservoir tank/the one is made of metal,but the other is made of plastic.Do the judges mind it?

7.Alternator and starter and cooling fan/the ones are currently available style,but the others are earliest style.Do the judges mind it?

I am not joking,I really proud of my Z's mostly exterior panels and floors,interior trims except door trims and seats have not been replaced since the car was born.And the engine,it still got 35 years old pistons and valves and a crank shaft and cam and so many other parts.They simply have reconditioned and tuned.

I was ready if the judges asked me to operate all the lighting systems and radios,wipers,rear defoggers,beeper and anntenna.Of course the locking systems.

But,if I entered in the stock class,the judges would not mind it.Because the rules does not require to do that.

I attached two photos.The one is Nissan vintage Z program car shipped in Japan by a Japanese owner.I did see this car,the VIN is some #600s I am sorry I forgot.

This red 01/1970 car is very beautiful,and this car could be much better than my Z in the stock class.Even it has later fuel pipes around cam cover,later hose clamps,rubber topped radiator hoses,plastic cooling fan,and later radiator front support member.As a comparison,my engine's photo is attached too.

Thank you,

kats

[EricB]

Kats

Do you ship your car to the USA every year for the national convention?

How expensive is that and how long does it take... Do you need special paperwork to be able to drive your car in the USA?

I wonder how difficult it would be to import my Z to Japan and drive it there if my wife and I ever moved there for work...

-e

[26th-Z]

Kats,

I saved that list and use it for reference. You lead the way for detail - impressed Jim and many others. You would make a good judge! It is fun to talk about the different parts from early cars.

If you ever see the Vintage Z in Japan again, I would love pictures and the VIN # for my research.

Judges will only subtract points for incorrect parts they see. Fuel vapor tank, ignition lock and such cannot be seen easily and the chances of having points off are small. Cars cannot be viewed for a very long time because of the show schedule. Only the obvious is seen, but if the car makes it to the medallion round, judges take a longer time. For most of your questions, I would say the judges would mind if they knew what they were looking at and could see it. My impression at the moment is that very few people know as much as you do about early cars.

I thought you entered the Daily Driver class on purpose!

Chris

[TomoHawk]

I'll say Kats' English has improoved verie mich to.

[dogma420]

Kats,

I would say (excluding color) your car is more original than one of the 'factory' restores.... just looking at your coolant hoses/brake booster hose says it all....

Love the color Kats...for a non stock color, that is one pretty car!

[26th-Z]

I suggest we not try to compare "correct" by Kats' standard, or mine for that matter, with Vintage Z Restoration Program cars. Vintage Zs are not "correct", they were not intended to be "correct", and don't belong in a "correct" conversation.

Perfect examples of the differences were pointed out by Kats in the original thread. Lets say you bought a Vintage Z. Would you really want the "correct" fan that ate water pumps? Would you really want a 40 amp alternator that wouldn't power a flashlight? How about hub caps that fall off when you go around a corner? Want to pay $25,000 for those? Vintage Zs are not "correct" for many, many good reasons.

I suggest we admire each other for our "correct" cars and our insane efforts to reach the ultimate "correctness" at any cost. Its a different game we play. We are crazy, correct, and it makes us smile!

[kats]

Please do not say that TomoHawk Now I need to re-check all the spelling mistakes.

kats

[dogma420]

Kats,

Ignore everything Tomohawk says...we all do...

[TomoHawk]

Please do not say that TomoHawk Now I need to re-check all the spelling mistakes.

No need to. You are doing very well now.

[Ed]

Kats,

I too was wondering a lot about what the judges look at and what is permitted.

I will be entering my freshly restored car at the nationals this year for the first time. And I wanted to know what kind of changes could someone make to their car and not be penalized for it. I read through the ZCCA judging manual and realized that it was not very clear. I think they did this on purpose. By leaving the rule book like it is the ultimate decision us up to the judge. You have to realize that every judge is going to be different. You can have five different judges look at your car and each one will notice something different or not notice it. Some judges will know that the hub caps are not correct for that year, other judges might not know. Like 26th said only the obvious is seen.

Car shows are for you to show off your car and your hard work. And to admire other people's work. Everyone should get a trophy for having a 30 year old car that still runs.

[26th-Z]

Ok, (Kats will love this conversation) so lets say I bring 26th to the stock class and Kats is the judge. Lets say my stock steel wheels do not have the correct date for my car. And lets say my hubcaps are the later style. As the car sits, Kats cannot tell if the hubcaps are correct or what the date is on the wheels. Should he make me take the hubcaps off? Should I refuse? Perhaps I should buy Kats a beer and try to distract him! Yes...good idea

I made plans to attend the Tidwater Z Car Club "Z Odyssey" in May and hope to participate as a judge. This conversation and your other thread, Ed, will go with me. I should be able to get some good answers from the gang in Virginia.

Keep the faith. Try to be as correct as you can. And we all have fun!

[CoastGuardZ]

Ed, can't wait to see your Z! I should be able to make it to a couple of the days of this years show - since I'll be living in Geneva, just 1 hour from Syracuse. I hope to be able to enter my '72 in the daily driver class, no intentions of winning I just want to participate! It will be really good to meet all that can attend.

Nate