280Z, the right car for me?

[KDMatt]

Allright, I'll be perfectly honest. There is a 1977 280Z for sale in my neighborhood that has me absolutely entranced.

Here's what I know about it:

It's an almost finished restoration (he claims, 90%, what that other 10% entails I do not know).

It's a five-speed, and a "strong runner."

New, red paint with supposedly, a new interior.

I haven't checked the mileage on it, he wants a soft (meaning, a negotiable) $2850 for it.

I'm 18 years old, and I guess you could say I haven't been 'looking for' a car, I've just been keeping my eyes open in case something I like comes along, and the Datsun 280Z definitely falls into that category.

What I'd like to know is, do you guys think it would be wise to look into this car more seriously?

What could I expect in terms of reliability?

I'm not exactly an engine-savvy person, though I probably know more than any average driver, and can do a few simple things with confidence (i.e. oil change, sparkplugs, etc.)

I like tinkering on things, but I wouldn't want a car where I'd have to tinker, just to keep it running, you follow?

Anyway, I'd really appreciate some insight, even though I realize I can't give you too many specifics about this car.

I've heard that the Z is very easy to work on and I like that, but, I don't want to have a car where I could readily expect to have to swap the transmission or replace anything major of that sort (nobody ever does).

Anyway, opinions please?

[Bambikiller240]

I can tell you one thing. If he values it at a soft $2850, it has not been "restored".

[hls30.com]

Come on Carl, it is only 90%....

Carl is right, new paint, new carpet, a tune up, and a good cleaning do not make a restoration.

Crawl up under it, check for rust. take it to a mechanic(or better yet a local club member) and have it checked out. It could be a great buy, it might not be-have it checked out to be sure.

Will

[alg]

I agree. I've seen many a guy be swindled by someone claiming that their car was restored or almost restored.

Some guys have yet to learn that if you only use bondo on your car, its not restored! (unless your car is 99% rust free, and your just evening out very minor pin dents) Don't want to ruffle any feathers! Haha Haha

Look everywhere for sign of Cancer. underneth, floors, engine compartment, wheel wells, frame rails etc! Check her mechanic condition, "Stong runner" may not be so strong running!

Look for signs of EXCESSIVE bondo or fiberglass (bad repairs). How straight or how wavy the car is? Prior collision Damage?

Or as hls30.com said have it checked out by someone who knows what they're checking!

Alex

[chickenwafer]

i agree with hls30- ask a club member close by if they can swing by and look at it. Where are you located? And, a new paintjob, carpet, and tune-up doesn't qualify as a resto....

But the 280Z is the most reliable "first" Z made. It's fuel injected so you won't have to tinker with carbs and such, althought the SU's aren't finiky anyways. But they make for a good daily driver as long as you take care of them. Remember, this car is nearly 30 years old and it requires attension more than, say a 5 year old car would.

And, these cars are prone to rust- it's our cancer that plauges almost every Z (except for western Z cars but even some of those have rust....). Like others said, crawl under the car and check for rust on the floorboards, frame rails, rocker panels, etc. Rust is a costly repair job and can endanger the safety of your car. Beware the current owner (or another owner) may have painted over the rust or Bondo'ed over it, which doesn't seal it away. Rust spreads like a bactria, and you have to eliminate it in order for it to stop spreading.

Another thing- make sure to drive it. And don't be p**** with it either, drive it like you normally would. Take it on roads you usally drive. See how it feels and how well you communicate with the car.

Another thing- ask the current owner why he is selling. If he gives some half-assed, un-genuine responce (maybe you can pick up he's lying...) then perhaps he's selling it because it isn't in as good of condition as he says it is. Be complete in your evaulation- you don't want to get stuck with a car you can't drive until you dump other 5K in it.

And in another note- welcome to the boards! This place is a great community and we can help with all Z-related questions. Feel free to post with questions and comments, the only stupid question is one you don't ask.

Dave

[KDMatt]

Thank you everybody, I appreciate your prompt responses to my inquiry.

Allright well, I talked to the current owner today to get some more info about this Z.

There are just over 100,000 miles on it.

There is rust on this car, he says it is under the floorpanels. He had new sheet-metal installed over it, but has not had it welded in.

The front fender is also missing (and there is some shoddy looking, painted chicken wire there to protect the radiator, or so I assume).

He says that I would, for certain, need to replace the tires though. He's never replaced them in the 1.5 years he's owned this car, and now they're starting to crack.

He just replaced the U-joints, and the door rockers. He says that they are brand new, genuine replacement parts.

He also replaced a large portion of the rubber fuel line.

In addition, he has installed a brand new radiator, and upgraded to an electric fan/thermostat assembly to replace the stock setup (since it was the stock fan setup that damaged the radiator to begin with).

Other than all of that this car is (at least cosmetically) in great condition. I'm tentatively planning to meet with him (if circumstances permit) on Thursday night, to inspect the engine and perhaps even take it for a quick spin, if he offers. I might see if I can get my car savvy neighbor to go with me, since, if memory serves, he had an old beater Z at one point or another.

I would however, take any official Z club members up if they offer to come out with me. The car is in the Blaine/Spring Lake Park area in Minnesota (I'm just a bit further south).

The seller tells me that parts for Z's are, comperably, quite inexpensive, and still readily available. He said that he picked up his new radiator for $130 (which amazed me, considering my dad paid over twice that much for a brand new radiator for his Ford, which is just over 20 years newer!)

He told me that when he had it repainted, that basically a gallon of paint was "dumped" on this car, and it really shows. (Mmm... Porsche Red...)

Anyway, he also said that I probably shouldn't see any issues with either the engine or transmission with this car; confirming everything I've been reading to the testament of the Z's reliability. If anything starts to go, it'll probably be things like corroded wires, cracked hoses, broken belts, busted water pumps, etc. etc.

He told me his motivation for selling it is that he's going to be graduating soon (he's 22), and he has a Mustang GT, and hasn't had any need for his Datsun. Apparently it's been sitting idle for a while during his disuse of it. He also informed me that he's basically flat broke, and needs the money, hence the reason for him not just giving it to his girlfriend.

Here's the kicker though: I ended up talking with this guy for about 45 minutes or so, just chatting about the Z in general, in addition to his Z. I told him that if I had a Z, I would probably end up wanting to modify it in some interesting, unique way, ya know, outmatching all of the little civics and 'tegs in my neighborhood. After a lot of conversation along those lines, he basically said that I'm the kind of person he wants to sell this car to, and, after a lot of hesitance, he said he would consider a significant drop in price, if it made me more able to buy this car from him.

After hesitating some more, (mentioning his parents will 'kill him for this,') he said that, for me, he'd drop the tag down to 2060, all just because he wants to see another Z enthusiast take over on it. He even said, "Yeah, that's 800 bucks you could spend on a body kit. It'd be really cool to see you do something like that to this car."

So... I get the feeling that he's sincere about it... I'll know for sure when I get a chance to inspect the car more thoroughly, and actually meet with the guy.

Thanks for the welcome! Please continue to post your thoughts and ideas.

[Bambikiller240]

Thank you everybody, I appreciate your prompt responses to my inquiry.

Allright well, I talked to the current owner today to get some more info about this Z.

There are just over 100,000 miles on it.

There is rust on this car, he says it is under the floorpanels. He had new sheet-metal installed over it, but has not had it welded in.

The front fender is also missing (and there is some shoddy looking, painted chicken wire there to protect the radiator, or so I assume).

He says that I would, for certain, need to replace the tires though. He's never replaced them in the 1.5 years he's owned this car, and now they're starting to crack.

He just replaced the U-joints, and the door rockers. He says that they are brand new, genuine replacement parts.

He also replaced a large portion of the rubber fuel line.

In addition, he has installed a brand new radiator, and upgraded to an electric fan/thermostat assembly to replace the stock setup (since it was the stock fan setup that damaged the radiator to begin with).

Other than all of that this car is (at least cosmetically) in great condition. I'm tentatively planning to meet with him (if circumstances permit) on Thursday night, to inspect the engine and perhaps even take it for a quick spin, if he offers. I might see if I can get my car savvy neighbor to go with me, since, if memory serves, he had an old beater Z at one point or another.

I would however, take any official Z club members up if they offer to come out with me. The car is in the Blaine/Spring Lake Park area in Minnesota (I'm just a bit further south).

The seller tells me that parts for Z's are, comperably, quite inexpensive, and still readily available. He said that he picked up his new radiator for $130 (which amazed me, considering my dad paid over twice that much for a brand new radiator for his Ford, which is just over 20 years newer!)

He told me that when he had it repainted, that basically a gallon of paint was "dumped" on this car, and it really shows. (Mmm... Porsche Red...)

Anyway, he also said that I probably shouldn't see any issues with either the engine or transmission with this car; confirming everything I've been reading to the testament of the Z's reliability. If anything starts to go, it'll probably be things like corroded wires, cracked hoses, broken belts, busted water pumps, etc. etc.

He told me his motivation for selling it is that he's going to be graduating soon (he's 22), and he has a Mustang GT, and hasn't had any need for his Datsun. Apparently it's been sitting idle for a while during his disuse of it. He also informed me that he's basically flat broke, and needs the money, hence the reason for him not just giving it to his girlfriend.

Here's the kicker though: I ended up talking with this guy for about 45 minutes or so, just chatting about the Z in general, in addition to his Z. I told him that if I had a Z, I would probably end up wanting to modify it in some interesting, unique way, ya know, outmatching all of the little civics and 'tegs in my neighborhood. After a lot of conversation along those lines, he basically said that I'm the kind of person he wants to sell this car to, and, after a lot of hesitance, he said he would consider a significant drop in price, if it made me more able to buy this car from him.

After hesitating some more, (mentioning his parents will 'kill him for this,') he said that, for me, he'd drop the tag down to 2060, all just because he wants to see another Z enthusiast take over on it. He even said, "Yeah, that's 800 bucks you could spend on a body kit. It'd be really cool to see you do something like that to this car."

So... I get the feeling that he's sincere about it... I'll know for sure when I get a chance to inspect the car more thoroughly, and actually meet with the guy.

Thanks for the welcome! Please continue to post your thoughts and ideas.

You don't install new floorpans "over" rusted ones. Old ones are REMOVED, and new ones are welded into the empty spot. The cost of the floorpans in about 1/3 the cost of paying someone to weld them in properly. Why is he installing mew metal over rusty metal? Doesn't make sense to me.

Chicken wire? to protect a radiator? from what? Chickens? Something fishy here IMO

New replacement fenders are available. $160 - 250 depending where you buy, and quality. (plus shipping)

Radiators vary in quality, like many parts. $130 will buy a radiator, but IMO it won't be a high quality one that will last a long time.

WARNING #1: Inspect this or ANY car in DAYLIGHT, not at night. Darkness hides many things that you should be looking for.

WARNING #2 Take someone with you or have it inspected by someone who really KNOWS Z's, not just someone who "had an old beater Z" (unless that is what you want to buy)

PS I don't know your neighbor, but if he turned a "beater" into a nice Z, that's one thing. If he bought and drove a "beater" that is quite something else.

WARNING #3 When buying a car, you need to understand the roles played by the buyer and seller. SELLER's job is to encourage the BUYER to purchase what is being sold. BUYER's job is understand what he is buying (condition, condition, condition) and only pay what it is realistcally worth.

If he had anyone interested in buying this car at $2850, he wouldn't be offering to lower the price by $800.

INSPECT COMPLETELY AND CAREFULLY.

By your initial statement, this car is a project car 90% completed, and you don't know what the 10% remaining is. You need to find out and understand what is entailed in all that. It would be most beneficial for you to have someone with you that can tell you honestly what is involved. The seller MAY be honest, BUT his interests are at odds with your interests. This should be looked at as a business transaction because that is what it is.

A gallon of paint was dumped on it. What is that paint hiding? What is the quality of that paint job? (or lack of quality, as the case may be)

By the Way, as far as his statement "Yeah, that's 800 bucks you could spend on a body kit. It'd be really cool to see you do something like that to this car." I am sure it would be cool, especially if it isn't his money spent on doing it.

As for your desire to "I would probably end up wanting to modify it in some interesting, unique way, ya know, outmatching all of the little civics and 'tegs in my neighborhood." Be advised that a body kit isn't going to make this car outperform (not sure what you mean by "outmatching") a Civic or Integra. It is another opportunity to repaint the car (more $$$, unless you like multi-colored / primered cars) If you want to outperform these newer cars, it can be done (several ways) but be prepared to spend a significant amount of money to do so.

Please understand that I'm not saying you shouldn't buy it. That is YOUR decision, but you should make that decision after you have all the facts about this or any car. Arm yourself with knowledge (yours or someone who is knowledgable and impartial. If you can't find a Z club member, find a reliable mechanic and pay to have him inspect it for you. It will cost a few bucks, but IMO it's better than buying blind....but it's your money.

Just my $.02 cents (that's a joke guys!)

[hls30.com]

Carl about covered it-you are going to look at a project car that will be a hole for your money for a while. For close to 3k you should get a car in better shape-in my opinion. If covering the floors is a fix, there are sure to be other repairs done with equal or lesser quality. Reqardless of who you take with you, take a digital camera, and burn up a set of batteries/fill up a large card. Before you agree to anything post pictures and let the Z police have 24 hours to point out what is good and what is bad. There are a lot of eyes in this thread.

A friendly seller can be a good thing or a smoke screen-only time will make his position clear.

Will

[chickenwafer]

I agree with Carl here 100%- he wouldn't have lowed the price $800 if he had someone interested at his asking price. Either he hasn't gotten any other offers or other people have been giving him offers for less.

I don't understand that chicken wire thing you talked about. Sounds odd, like Carl pointed out.

Also, a $130 radiator is either used or a piece of crap (more than likely a combo). And the whole welding-new-sheet-metal-over-the-exsisting-floorboards is a load of crap as well. Either he has no clue what he is doing or he is trying to take you for a ride. I knwo you want to believe the best in people, but his intensions are getting your money, not being your friend (as harsh as it may sound....)

I don't know of any Minnosota club members, at least of the top of my head. At the very least take it to a mechanic- don't bring your car savvy neighbor along who had a "beaten" Z unless that is what you want. You need a Z expert.......

Dave

PS- This all must be discouraging, I know. You finally found a car and everyone is telling you it isn't the wisest choice to buy. If it helps, browse the classified section of this forum and buy a car from a Z member who you can trust. It will be much easier and less worrysome.

[KDMatt]

You don't install new floorpans "over" rusted ones. Old ones are REMOVED, and new ones are welded into the empty spot. The cost of the floorpans in about 1/3 the cost of paying someone to weld them in properly. Why is he installing mew metal over rusty metal? Doesn't make sense to me.

Now that you put it that way, me neither. I'll ask him about it.

Chicken wire? to protect a radiator? from what? Chickens? Something fishy here IMO

I have no idea why it's really there, or if it really IS chicken wire, I just made an assumption.

Radiators vary in quality, like many parts. $130 will buy a radiator, but IMO it won't be a high quality one that will last a long time.

An interesting point I never thought of before.

WARNING #1: Inspect this or ANY car in DAYLIGHT, not at night. Darkness hides many things that you should be looking for... A gallon of paint was dumped on it. What is that paint hiding? What is the quality of that paint job? (or lack of quality, as the case may be)

I'd never look at it at night, though I'll admit, when I got close enough to touch it yesterday, it was cloudy, but daytime nonetheless. The paint-job I mentioned before, really does look remarkable, but I'll go back and check for imperfections, and body-lines that don't seem quite right.

WARNING #2 Take someone with you or have it inspected by someone who really KNOWS Z's, not just someone who "had an old beater Z" (unless that is what you want to buy)

Well, I've got a few friends who are car buffs (one in particular who buys a lot of older, used cars), so maybe I can get one of them to accompany me.

WARNING #3 When buying a car, you need to understand the roles played by the buyer and seller. SELLER's job is to encourage the BUYER to purchase what is being sold. BUYER's job is understand what he is buying (condition, condition, condition) and only pay what it is realistcally worth.

Yeah I know that well, I'm an avid ebayer. :cheeky:

If he had anyone interested in buying this car at $2850, he wouldn't be offering to lower the price by $800.

Well the general impression I got was that he was just going to take whatever offer he could get, and that the first person who could give him money would be the person who got the car.

INSPECT COMPLETELY AND CAREFULLY.

By your initial statement, this car is a project car 90% completed, and you don't know what the 10% remaining is. You need to find out and understand what is entailed in all that. It would be most beneficial for you to have someone with you that can tell you honestly what is involved. The seller MAY be honest, BUT his interests are at odds with your interests. This should be looked at as a business transaction because that is what it is.

By the Way, as far as his statement "Yeah, that's 800 bucks you could spend on a body kit. It'd be really cool to see you do something like that to this car." I am sure it would be cool, especially if it isn't his money spent on doing it.

As for your desire to "I would probably end up wanting to modify it in some interesting, unique way, ya know, outmatching all of the little civics and 'tegs in my neighborhood." Be advised that a body kit isn't going to make this car outperform (not sure what you mean by "outmatching") a Civic or Integra. It is another opportunity to repaint the car (more $$$, unless you like multi-colored / primered cars) If you want to outperform these newer cars, it can be done (several ways) but be prepared to spend a significant amount of money to do so.

Oh yeah, I get that. I meant 'outmatch' only in terms of having something that looks way cooler and that actually has a legacy behind it.

Please understand that I'm not saying you shouldn't buy it. That is YOUR decision, but you should make that decision after you have all the facts about this or any car. Arm yourself with knowledge (yours or someone who is knowledgable and impartial. If you can't find a Z club member, find a reliable mechanic and pay to have him inspect it for you. It will cost a few bucks, but IMO it's better than buying blind....but it's your money.

Just my $.02 cents (that's a joke guys!)

Thank you, I really appreciate your input on this matter (all of you)... and I'll admit too, it is discouraging, but this is part of the process. I would much rather make an enlightened, educated decision in the negative, than make a foolish decision in the positive just because I think the car "looks cool."

I'll see if I can get some pictures of it uploaded soon, then you can all see what I'm looking at... but... two dimensionally of course.

[e_racer1999]

i really think you should have someone who is part of the club go with you. the z has a lot of little tricks up her sleeve, unique to her. but, for 2Gs.... it may not be that bad of a deal. just know that the final cost is a lot more than 2Gs, and once the bug bites ya, there's no slowing....

[dogma420]

here's what i'd do imo:

1. forget about this car. Just hearing that some floor pans were bolted in place means this car should be forgotten about.

2. you are new to this forum; soak up all the info you can about Zs on this site---a LOT of info, that you'll go---"Geeze, I should've read all this stuff before I bought!"---also go to www.zhome.com and check out all the articles--very helpful as well. there are many many many more sites to look at as well...just search on google 'datsun z' or '240z'...you will find a lot...240z will bring up more sites than 280z will (and the car's major points you need to learn about are the same).

3. after gaining some knowledge...using patience (we're talking Yoda type patience) search for another 77-78 280z (or even older but by how you talk look for a 77-78 5 speed 280z).....don't buy until you check out the rust factor and how it drives.

4. after looking, go get another one---bolted on floor pans? this means his rocker panels have got to be compromised in some fashion--avoid this car IMO.