ignition circuit testing

[helopilot]

trouble shooting the new z. 72 240 man 5/72. I have been cleaning all the grounds I can find. The problem is a little baffling. If I turn the key to start nothing happens. No brake light in spedo, no clicking, guages don't work nothing. On the fuse panel I have tested all the fuses and all are good with good continuity. At the starter I have tested the fusible link and it has continuity. On my car there is a large white whire that comes from the wiring harness. A black fusible link (it says it right on it) is connected to the end of the white wire and goes to the same terminal as the pos cable from the battery. I have seen mention of another wire going from the batt positive to the starter, and on mine there is not.

On the fuse panel if I give the ignition circuit power from the flasher fuse by jumping across with a screwdrived the dash lights come on the ignition switch starts the car and all is well. All the lights work, guages work ect.

I took the alternator down and it tested ok. I have cleaned the contacts for the voltage regulator. I swapped out the ignition switch itself (the electrical side) and that did the same thing.

When the car is sitting if I turn on the lights or anything nothing works at all except the emergency flasher.

I hate to keep doing the purchase diagnostic I have a factory manual comming and a haynes to work with now but I am lost.

Thanks

phil

[Ricklandia]

Hang in there Phil, I can hear lots of head scratching already. It might take a little while but I'm sure we'll be able to figure it out. My manuals are at home, but I'll give it a look when I get there. Dunno if I'll be much help, electrical is not my strong suit, but I'll help if I can. I can appreciate your frustration, this definitely falls into the "majorly fargin weird" catagory, but I'm sure it will make sense in the end.

[helopilot]

Appreciate you help. Is this where we say hi my name is phil and i'm a ......

Also just cleaned the connections on the ballast resistor. It has continuity between the strips on top and well as the coil wire underneath. Still no joy.

this is about as frustrating as flying the helicopter with a 100' line underneath maybe tomorrow..

[Ricklandia]

trouble shooting the new z. 72 240 man 5/72. I have been cleaning all the grounds I can find. The problem is a little baffling. If I turn the key to start nothing happens. No brake light in spedo, no clicking, guages don't work nothing. On the fuse panel I have tested all the fuses and all are good with good continuity. At the starter I have tested the fusible link and it has continuity. On my car there is a large white whire that comes from the wiring harness. A black fusible link (it says it right on it) is connected to the end of the white wire and goes to the same terminal as the pos cable from the battery. I have seen mention of another wire going from the batt positive to the starter, and on mine there is not.

Okay, lets look here first. Is it possible that this white wire has a red stripe on it? If it does, then this wire should be going from the positive terminal on the starter to the altenator. (see the wiring diagram I emailed) On mine (10/72), the only thing connected to the battery pos (+) connector is the main feed to the starter (large cable), so you should be okay there.

On the fuse panel if I give the ignition circuit power from the flasher fuse by jumping across with a screwdrived the dash lights come on the ignition switch starts the car and all is well. All the lights work, guages work ect.

Do you need to maintain this jump for everything to work? ie. if you remove the jumper, does everything die even if the car is running?

took the alternator down and it tested ok. I have cleaned the contacts for the voltage regulator. I swapped out the ignition switch itself (the electrical side) and that did the same thing.

That's two good news items. You can have a bad alternator and it wouldn't create these problems, but I'm glad to hear your works. Replacing the ignition switch and it still happens? Well, at least we can now eliminate that item from the list.

When the car is sitting if I turn on the lights or anything nothing works at all except the emergency flasher.

Part of this makes sense, the other not. The emergency lights always working makes sense, it should be getting power regardless of what state the ignition circuit is in (so you can leave the flashers on without having to leave the key in the car). When you say "...When the car is sitting if I turn on the lights or anything nothing works...", can you get more specific here? Is the car running when this happens? Is the car not running but the key is in the ON postition? When you say "lights or anything", does that mean if you turn on ANY electrical item the car dies (the fan for example?) or only the lighting circuit? Lastly, if you leave the light switch OFF, is power restored? I'm assuming this can only be done using your jumper (from the emerg. light fuse)?

Sorry, I'm sure these sound like annoyingly simple questions, but I'm tring to make a mental flow chart of what exactly is happening here.

[helopilot]

Thanks Rick,

If I jump the fuse which gives power to the system when the car starts I can remove the jump and it continues to run. I the rpm is 1500-2000 usually the lighs will stay on. The running lights for sure probably lights as well. The right headlight is very dim the left bright. I am soaking the screws to remove the right headlight so I can clean the contacts. Last night using the diagram I have i traced the white wire no (red stripe) which conect to that fusible link. On the connector going into the voltage regulator I saw similar wire. I tested for continuity it was the same wire. It had power going in the connector but none comming out. I looked at the connector and there was no wire opposite the white wire. I moved the white wire on the regulator so it lined up but it did not make any difference. I did see however some of the wires on the harness side did not corospond with wires on the VR. As in one blank space. Also the alternator I have has the 2 post connectors. one has white/red stripe the other black. The plastic connector has 4 slots on the alt side. The plastic connector that plugs into the alternator is a extension tht goes from 4 wires on the alt side to 2 wires on the harness side.

If the car is sitting not running with the key in any position no lights or anything comes on except the flashers.

On the diagram you sent me the white wire/fusible link goes to the Voltage Reg. it goes to the A spot. The A on the alt goes to the fuse block the the ammeter. Right now I have no power at the redwhite wire at the alternator. I am goint to run down to the parts place and get another VR and see if the white wire idea is valid. That may power the A terminal on the alternator which will power the ignition...

I'll check back here in a bit

Phil

[helopilot]

Just back with a new regualtor. No change. I did buy a alternator for the car by the cars year and the one on it is not even close. I will swap this out when I get back from dinner.

[Bambikiller240]

Your description of the alt IN your car makes me think someone has modified your car.

[Ricklandia]

The plastic connector has 4 slots on the alt side. The plastic connector that plugs into the alternator is a extension tht goes from 4 wires on the alt side to 2 wires on the harness side.

I think you're on the right track. I agree with Carl, this sounds like a non-standard altenator. Mine has the two posts, wired as yours, however it only has a two wire plastic connector to the F and N terminals. If you look at the wiring diagram again, notice that the parking lights/turn signals are wired up to this circuit (E post of the altenator). A mis-wiring at this end starts to make sense with your light switches. Is it possible that the altenator in the car (the old one) has a built in regulator?

[helopilot]

Ok, I put the new alternator on all wires per the wiring diagram. I turn the key and the same thing. I jumped the fuse started it ap and all the light are way bright. They also dim and brighten with the rpm like a generator on a 6 volt VW.

I just don't get it.

I have pulled the connector off the back of the ignition switck. With my handy dandy 12 tester light grounded there is no power to any of the slots.

I don't know what to do. I'll try and pawn the kids off and try again tomorrow. Flew external load training with 500 lbs on a 100' line from the hook on the helicopter today and my brain is fried...

[helopilot]

here is the story. After all was said and done I bought some guages off ebay. included was a ammeter. I can still operate the car by jumping power to the ignition circuit. I have never seen the ammeter wiggle. I tested the 2 posts on the new ammeter for continuity and it had it. I pulled the old one and tested it no continuity. Switched guages hooked up the batt turned the key car lept forward about a foot cause it was in gear but the key works.

All high voltage problems solved with new regulator.

Thanks for all the input

Phil

[helopilot]

Here is the story. After all was said and done I bought some guages off ebay. included was a ammeter. I can still operate the car by jumping power to the ignition circuit. I have never seen the ammeter wiggle. I tested the 2 posts on the new ammeter for continuity and it had it. I pulled the old one and tested it no continuity. Switched guages hooked up the batt turned the key car lept forward about a foot cause it was in gear but the key works.

All high voltage problems solved with new regulator.

Thanks for all the input

Phil