Indy 500 Not Won By Danica Patrick!

[sopwith21]

I don't know how anybody could quantify exactly what would make any single place the .."racing capital of the world"... let alone justify that statement. Looking at it from over here, it seems folly to make such a definitive statement.

cap·i·tal

Audio pronunciation of "capital"

Pronunciation Key (kp-tl)

noun

A city that is the center of a specific activity or industry: the "financial capital of the world."

F1 teams are scattered all over the globe. So are their races. If you want to see Ferrari, you have to go to Italy. If you want to see Jaguar, go to Coventry. There is no central point of geographic focus. NASCAR is split between Daytona, Mooresville, Myrtle Beach, Charlotte and several other southern locations. There is no single point of geographic focus.

Indianapolis has not one or two, but nearly twenty open wheel racing teams from OWRS and Indycar located here. Of all the teams in every major open wheel series in the world, nearly a third of them are all located in Indianapolis.

That doesn't count more than one hundred other racing teams in other forms of motorsports, all based here. Dozens of sanctioning bodies are located here as well in nearly every discipline of the sport, including Championship Off Road Racing, USAC sprint/Silver Crown/midget racing, IRL, OWRS/Champ Car, and many more. Several major chassis manufacturers are located in Indianapolis. One of the most successful dirt late model chassis builders in the world is headquartered just south of town. There are more engine builders and suppliers here than you can begin to list. Beast open wheel chassis are built here. Simpson's main commercial outlet is located on west 38th street.

The Hoosier/Hulman Hundred, for decades the richest dirt race on the planet, is held in Indianapolis. The US Nationals, the most prestigious drag race in the world, is held in Indianapolis. The Indianapolis Motor Speedway as well as at least six more major race tracks are located here. The richest and most well-attended stock car race in the world is held here. That pathetic, worthless little race they call the 500 is held here. Two major road courses are here. Seven more ovals are here or nearby.

And this is all from memory... there's hundreds more that I haven't bothered to look up.

Please name one city anywhere in the world - any city, anywhere - that is home to just ten or fifteen major racing teams? Or, say, sixty or seventy minor league teams? That's not asking much... just take a stab at it. Name another city that hosts the most famous open wheel race in the world, the biggest drag race in the world and the most highly attended stock car race in the world... all in the same town? Just one?

Here's the bet: answer my question and I'll change my avatar. If you can't, then you add "Indianapolis, racing capital of the world" to your avatar until next year's Indy 500.

Any takers?

[panchovisa]

OFF TOPIC: I wonder if Bernie has his eye on buying out any 2005 Indy drivers contracts? He always seems to be looking for a Yank driver (or Yank champion) to feed to the lions.

Alan, even here F1 rates 4 lines in the local paper after each race, unless someone wins their 5th World Campionship then it's 8 lines. As for the local television news, never a mention. Must be that F1 is a regional series :), alot like the Indy 500 is now.

[HS30-H]

cap·i·tal

Audio pronunciation of "capital"

Pronunciation Key (kp-tl)

noun

A city that is the center of a specific activity or industry: the "financial capital of the world."

sopwith 21,

Thanks for the English lesson, but I already knew what the word 'capital' means. I also know what the word 'sarcastic' means, and can assure you that I wasn't being sarcastic when I asked my question. I just might start being a little bit sarky with you now though....

F1 teams are scattered all over the globe.

Not quite. I think you'll find that most of them have their bases in Europe, and the majority of them in the area nicknamed the 'Silicon Valley' of the race car world - that is the south east of England.

Ferrari of course are in Modena, Italy. Toyota in Germany. McLaren, Williams, BAR Honda, Jordan, Red Bull Racing ( formerly Jaguar, formerly Stewart GP ), Minardi ( their 'European Aviation' UK base is actually bigger than their Faenza, Italy base ) and yes - Renault ( originally Benetton ) are all based in that area. So are many of their major suppliers and contractors. Sauber even has a UK operation that operates alongside its mainland European base.

That's hardly scattered all over the globe, is it? Most of them appear to be either in the UK or in Italy and Germany / Austria.

But are you missing the point? None of them are based in Indianapolis........

So are their races.

Yes. That's kind of the point of a World Championship, as opposed to a National Championship like the "Champ Car World Series"......

Of all the teams in every major open wheel series in the world, nearly a third of them are all located in Indianapolis.

Surely you can't actually believe that to be true? Have you any idea how many open-wheel racing series there are in the World? In order to make your statement, you'd need to know that. So what's the figure? I certainly couldn't count them.

Please name one city anywhere in the world - any city, anywhere - that is home to just ten or fifteen major racing teams?

Sorry, I can't do that. I don't think such a city or town exists anywhere in the World. The key word being "major". Your idea of major seems to equate to my idea of localised. Minor or run-of-the-mill I could do easy, but "major" is tough.

Name another city that hosts the most famous open wheel race in the world, the biggest drag race in the world and the most highly attended stock car race in the world... all in the same town? Just one?

Good one! Nice wordsmithery . Not the most famous race, but the most famous open wheel race. Not the most highly-attended race, but the most highly-attended stock car race. These are great games if we can be bothered to play them.

You got me there, except that the "biggest" ( most important? ) drag race and the most highly attended 'stock car race' ( what qualifies as a 'stock car race'? NASCAR only? ) will naturally occur somewhere in the USA, and I don't think the Indy 500 is as important ( on a Worldwide basis ) now as you think it is. "Most Famous Open Wheel Race"? It might well be the Monaco GP, but again - I'm not saying FOR DEFINITE like you are. I'm more cautious.

You wouldn't want to start including events that take place outside large stadiums, or else "most highly attended" might have to give way to one of the races in the WRC. 'Most viewers' crown would - I would think - go to an event that is televised ( truly ) worldwide. F1 again, I think ( not necessarily deservedly ).

Here's the bet: answer my question and I'll change my avatar. If you can't, then you add "Indianapolis, racing capital of the world" to your avatar until next year's Indy 500.

Any takers?

Hmmm, how about I answer your question with some questions of my own?:

How many of the chassis and engines competing in the 2005 Indy 500 were constructed in Indianapolis, the "Racing Capital Of The World"? How about the transmissions, wheels, tyres, brakes, radiators, oil coolers, electronics, composites, etc etc?

And to take it a little further, how many of the chassis, engines, transmissions, wheels, tyres, electronics, etc etc that compete in Formula 1, WRC. Formulas 3, 3000, Renault, Nissan, BMW, Nippon ( and all the other national and international 'Formula' car championships ), JGTC, Paris Dakar, ETCC / WTCC, BTCC, DTM etc etc etc - I could go on ad infinitum - are / were manufactured or assembled in Indianapolis?

Tell me its the MAJORITY and I'll agree that your avatar slogan is right and true. If you can't, then maybe you need to change it to "Racing Capital Of The USA" - which would appear to be more accurate.

I don't think there IS such a place as the "Racing Capital Of The World".

Cheers,

Alan T.

[2-4-T-Z-MAN]

I am curious.

What is the real reason sopwith21 is so passionate about Danica and Indy?

Female in a MAN'S world?

Did he lose a bet?

Media attention about her new status, regardless of how long or short lived?

Why would she not want the attention?

Why would she not want to bask in the accomplishment of being there start to finish?

Why would that be a hot issue to him?

Just look at the bottom of his page, "2004 GT Challange Series champion" and "2004 Comma Rookie of the year" He must be proud of the accomplishments to note them both.

Why would anyone not want to say look at me, look at what I did.

Just curious.

[26th-Z]

Hey sopwith! Dirt track racing mecca in Loxahatchee, Florida. Home of the Southern Hemisphere Hog Pull. Over 20 million people toured the museum and attended the Hog Pull last year. There. Change your avatar.

You guys are taking this all too seriously. I can't help but chuckle. Memories take me back to the SCCA beer parties in Palm Beach when the likes of Rahal, Guthrie, and St. James were thrashing it out. Bobby Rahal had an incredible Ralt.

[sopwith21]

I am curious.

What is the real reason sopwith21 is so passionate about Danica

Ah, but you have it backwards. I am one who is curious.

Why are the media and some fans are so passionate about her that they're willing to blow her accomplishments out of proportion and ignore other deserving drivers in order to create a hero? Its been fascinating to watch people defend her so passionately, even resorting to the tired old "sexist" accusations and personal comments in a desperate defense of their idol. Its been even more fascinating to study the double standards being applied to her.

For instance, the Indy 500 is denigrated as a shadow if its former self and a race that doesn't matter anymore. Yet Danica is a great driver for having finished fourth in a miserable race that doesn't matter?

Danica is on this week's cover of Sports Illustrated. The last Indy 500 driver to make the cover was Danny Sullivan in 1985. For twenty years they've ignored every winner of the 500, but a woman who fails to make the podium is on the cover after her first race?

One writer noted that 22 of this year's drivers had no chance at even making last year's field. Yet Danica is praised for finishing fourth among these losers?

Another writer asserted that Danica's greatness stems from her ability to drive through "make or break" moments in order to finish the race in the same position in which she started, then claims that Fillipe Giaffone deserves no attention for finishing the race while going from dead last to 15th.

Danica is a good driver and its truly been fun watching her, but the simple fact is that attention given her is wildly out of proportion to other drivers who have comparable or greater accomplishments. So please help... I am curious. What is the real reason people are so passionate about Danica?

[sopwith21]

Hey sopwith! Dirt track racing mecca in Loxahatchee, Florida. Home of the Southern Hemisphere Hog Pull. Over 20 million people toured the museum and attended the Hog Pull last year. There. Change your avatar.

:laugh:

Now THAT was funny.

[sopwith21]

McLaren, Williams, BAR Honda, Jordan, Red Bull Racing ( formerly Jaguar, formerly Stewart GP ), Minardi ( their 'European Aviation' UK base is actually bigger than their Faenza, Italy base ) and yes - Renault ( originally Benetton ) are all based in that area.

See? I knew you could do it! Put them all in a single city, add another fifteen major teams and another hundred or so teams from smaller series', build another eight ovals in the same town and there you go! Racing capital of the world!

BTW, as soon as those teams move in I'll need the name of that city for my avatar. What is it? (Loxahatchee? )

Surely you can't actually believe that to be true? Have you any idea how many open-wheel racing series there are in the World? In order to make your statement, you'd need to know that. So what's the figure? I certainly couldn't count them.

I said "major" open wheel series. Most of us agree that there are three... F1, OWRS, IRL. There are 18 full time teams in each. 18x3=54. Do the math. Nearly twenty of those 54 are in Indianapolis. Not in Indiana... not somewhere in this region... not somewhere south of Canada... in Indianapolis. That doesn't count over a hundred other teams in other series.

You can call Senegal the racing capital if you like, but there are still more major open wheel teams here than anywhere else in the world. Sorry. I'll see if I can get them to leave. :laugh:

I could go on ad infinitum - are / were manufactured or assembled in Indianapolis?

Tell me its the MAJORITY and I'll agree that your avatar slogan is right and true.

No you wouldn't. You're in too deep now... you have no choice.

Yes, Indy does have more of those manufacturers than any other single city, but you wouldn't accept my findings anyway. So do your own homework and have fun.

[HS30-H]

...BTW, as soon as those teams move in I'll need the name of that city for my avatar. What is it? (Loxahatchee? )

sopwith21,

If you are as good at swerving on the track as you are on the page here then you will be very racy indeed. Bravo.

But did you get my point? I listed a whole bunch of series and asked if the competitors in those series are based in Indianapolis. I think the answer is no? Likewise for the major components used in those series. Any of them based in Indianapolis? I can't think of any off the top of my ( empty ) head.

You didn't specifically answer the question about this year's INDY 500 competitors. If Indy is indeed the "RCotW" then surely a large proportion of those 2005 Indy 500 runners would have been using engines, transmissions, chassis etc etc that were made by companies based in the "RCotW". No?

I said "major" open wheel series. Most of us agree that there are three... F1, OWRS, IRL. There are 18 full time teams in each. 18x3=54. Do the math. Nearly twenty of those 54 are in Indianapolis. Not in Indiana... not somewhere in this region... not somewhere south of Canada... in Indianapolis. That doesn't count over a hundred other teams in other series.

I tried the "math" but I'm having trouble counting the F1 teams. No matter how hard I try I can't come up with 18 teams. Seems that Indianapolis must be even more important than you yourself give it credit for. How about "Indianapolis - Racing Capital Of The Known Universe!".

Sorry, but I have to smile when you mention "major" and then go on to talk about OWRS ( the artist formerly known as CART ) and IRL. Seems that your idea of "major" might be slightly different to that of the rest of the World.

Yes, Indy does have more of those manufacturers than any other single city, but you wouldn't accept my findings anyway. So do your own homework and have fun.

Maybe you have missed your vocation. I reckon you would make a great politician.

I just want to make sure that you don't misunderstand my position on this; I am NOT saying that there is a SINGLE city to rival Indianapolis as the "RCotW" - I am saying that it is farcical to call any ONE city the "RCotW" when the positive MINORITY of the World's major auto racing-related manufacturers are based there. It is quite simple.

But then perhaps you are not to blame for this. When web pages such as this: Indiana local gov tell people that Indianapolis Motor Speedway is "the World's oldest and most famous auto racing track" then it is to be expected.

Perhaps "most famous" is true and justifiable, but "World's oldest" certainly isn't. The first race at Brooklands predates Indy by at least a couple of years......

I want you to understand that I have TOTAL respect for Indy's history. The names I have mentioned up to now on this thread ( as well as the names associated with them, such as Novi, Miller and the many others ) should give you a clue to that. However, I don't see it dominating the racing world's attention like it once did.

And I've changed my avatar slogan in tribute to the real "RCotW". How's that for a concession?

[240ZX]

Interesting thread and interesting comments. All I can say is, any driver who qualifies for the 500 and finishes is damn good as well as damn lucky. Regarding all the hype about Danica Patrick....well, it's just plain old media crap and nothing else!!! Anyone who gets sucked into the habitual media hype is narrow minded and has the blinders on!!! Let's face it, this is just one fast and talented racecar driver....the proof is in the pudding!

[Walter Moore]

So Allen,

Will you be dropping by for the U.S. GP this month, or are we too "back water" for your tastes?

[26th-Z]

Hey sopwith!

Over here in Loxahatchee, we got Carroll Snailby- fastest woman clay track land speed record driver ever. You should see her weave her way through the sugar cane fields! She was gonna do a cover for Spots Illustrious magazine, but they wanted a smile photo and she ain't got no teeth. Best damned kep secert. You go ahead and keep boasting about Indianapolis, but they're snickering at you down there in Loxy.

"Why are the media and some fans are so passionate about her that they're willing to blow her accomplishments out of proportion and ignore other deserving drivers in order to create a hero?" Because she is unique! :stupid: She's young, cute, fit and fast. You can pronounce her name. She's All American. And let's face it, she's fast. I hear that Bobby Rahal scouted her from an English Formula Ford series. She was runner-up in one of the old Toyota Atlantic seasons. Quite frankly, she turned "a miserable race that doesn't matter" into the cover of Sports Illustrated. She is exactly what the 500 needed and precisely what a serious group of people have been trying to do with F1. Danica put on a show. Danica is on the cover of Sports Illustrated because she did what Danny Sullivan did - she spun in the middle of the race and survived. She has made Bobby Rahal so much damned money in the last week, it is incredable. The All American kid is exactly the hero all Americans want for their All American race of races and they finally got it. And she was a girl! Even better. I'm sorry to say that no one cares about Fillipe Giaffone. They can't even pronounce his name. The first comment I hear about the guy who won, is: "yea, a Brit". So there is my answer to your curiosity. I think it is even greater that she didn't win the race. She won the publicity race and you can bet that she will win races in the future. She has the car and team behind her and she is making them a ton of money. She is exactly what Americans want.

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