Bad starter solenoid only half the problem?

[EricB]

I got to borrow a company car to get home tonight while the Z spends the night in the parking lot waiting for the overnight delivery of a new starter from MSA tomorrow morning... Well during the commute I got to thinking that maybe I've got an added problem I failed to consider... Thought I'd run it by you guys and gals for someone's two cents...

On Friday afternoon after I filled up with gas before driving home it did once fail to start (only heard the solenoid "click"). After I checked over everything and tried again it started right up.

I drove the car this morning & it worked fine.

At lunch I got in turned the key, heard the fuel pump come on as usual and then went to crank it and got the solenoid click but nothing else. Turned the key to the off position and then tried cranking again... this time I heard a different kind of click (like a fuse popping) and no fuel pump or crank.

I pulled back the center console and checked that fuse box. Pulled all the fuses and inspected them one by one. They all appeared fine so I put them back in.

I also checked the inline fuse & the wiring that goes to the Facet fuel pump hanging out under the car next to the fuel tank. They were fine too.

I looked under the hood and found everything still securely attached & where it ought to be.

???

Along with my tools & FSM, I am bringing a spare set of fuses and a known good battery to work tomorrow in case I need them too... But is there another fuse elsewhere I might have missed? Something like a main 50A fuse like on a more modern car?

Where the engine wire harness meets up with the interior wire harness under the passenger side dash & above the kick panel, are all those brass-colored "boxes" all relays? Could it be one of those went out too coincidentally???

I could have sworn that the clicking sound when I tried turning the key came from there rather than from under the hood (ie starter solenoid).

Thoughts?

Ideas?

Comments?

Thanks as always,

-e

[Bambikiller240]

Fusible link.

If you have a 240Z, there is only one.

One end has an eyelet & connects to the starter/solenoid and the other end has a plastic conector that plugs into the wiring harness near the passenger-side frame-rail.

[beandip]

Don't just look at a fuse or a fuseable link . Always check them with a multi meter . They can look good when blown ! This could save you hours of checking things and some money replacing parts that are good .

[EricB]

Holy gear reduction batman!

Wow.... The 78-83 gear reduction starter coupled with a brand new Optima battery... that's something else.... Night and day difference with the tired 73 oem starter...

-e

[EricB]

So the new starter worked all week.

And then today at lunch almost exactly 7days to the hour - the new gear reduction starter failed on me again.

I turned the key , heard a click, and then no fuel pump, no horn, no radio, no power to anything.... again checked the fuses and again they all checked out.

Looked at the connections under the hood with the key in the off position and when everything checked out i turned the key to the acc position and once again was rewarded with fuel pump, horn, etc. If I turned they to start the car then nothing. If however I push-started the car then it runs fine.

was I just unlucky with the remanufactured starter MSA sent me?

i'm on hold with them right now...

something else (electrical) going on?

-e

'73 240Z

[dogma420]

Have you actually physically removed the positive/negative cable and used a terminal cleaner thingy to completely clean the lead contacts both on the cables and on the battery? Also, what about the other ends of the cables, the ground and the postive...happened to me many times in the far past that you'd get enough juice for radio, etc. but not enough for a cold crank if those are dirty...once a year I completely clean mine and put the red spray crap on the terminals...I also replace the cables at least every 3 years or so...so I never have that problem anymore.

Also, the symptom of having nothing power on, then on intermittently can be caused by this issue.

Just something to check possibly, if you've done it, apologies for having to read this! Even if you have a new battery, if the cables are dirty, you're only getting partial current.

[EricB]

The battery I put in last week when I replaced my starter was a brand new Optima red-top so yes those terminals were clean. I did brush off the battery cables... maybe not enough though? I'll give them a good once over tomorrow with a metal bristle brush and see if that helps.

Just in case I did get the bad apple in the bunch MSA is sending me a replacement 78-83 starter free of charge in exchance for this supposed defective one. Either way I'll figure it out. Thanks for the post Dogma420

-e

[sblake01]

Have you checked the electrical part that screws on to the back of your ignition switch? I seem to remember some symptoms very similar to what you are describing being caused by one of these going bad on a 510 I once owned.

[EricB]

That's a good idea Stephen... I'll check that too. I have a spare NOS ignition switch which I could try... Thanks for the tip.

-e

[dogma420]

You're welcome...

When you say 'brushed off' I mean put a wired poker thingy (on the end of a terminal cleaner) through the post connectors...not just brushed off...have new lead showing...

Don't know what else I'd do...I'm kinda stumped.

[EricB]

FYI

I first swapped ignition switches and that didn't solve anything.

Then swapped out the starter for the replacement one MSA overnighted, and at the same time really went through all the electrical connections and so far so good. Maybe I just got unlucky and got the one bad rebuilt starter from Hitachi. Could be I guess...

-e

[billcapp]

Don't forget the other ends of the battery cables being cleaned in the same manner. The smaller ground from the battery to the firewall should be removed cleaned and reattached. Grounding seems to be an issue in many electrical problems. Also there is the possibility the ignition switch is worn out and not setting in the correct position when used. If the key will turn the lock very effortlessly with no good feeling of a detent that is an indication.