If there is a better looking Zcar, please show me.

[bemmerguy714]

**** that Twin Turbo q45 Z. I'm sick of seeing it. I don't care how cool and nifty it looks, it's more played out than chinese prostitute. I've seen that car posted more than Darius's videos, and not a week goes by when some newbie pops up on hybridz and goes

"WHOA! Check out this blue Z with a twin turbo v8!!!!!!"

Of course, we forego the fact that it was posted on hybridZ first by the guy that runs the site, Erik Neyerlin (he actually lives out close by me)

Oh and of course, I won't mention that this car ALREADY got posted in this thread :stupid: :stupid: :stupid: :stupid: :stupid: :stupid:

*steps off soapbox*

Thats true its been seen and talked about alot but u have to admit, He went about building the car the right way. And did a very good job. But i see ur point i've seen this car alot now. Still looks good to me thou.

Matt

[auxilary]

or paid someone to do it. I don't know if the owner actually built the car himself.

To me, a checkbook mechanic is worth less than a guy who bought an already built/converted car.

If he did the swap himself, props. I have nothing against the owner, the car IS cool. Problem is that it has way too much overexposure on all forums

[satolsa]

It looks like "Akuma no Z" (Devil's Z?) in Japanese comic "Wangan midnight" Very sharp. Did you do the body work yourself?

[bemmerguy714]

or paid someone to do it. I don't know if the owner actually built the car himself.

To me, a checkbook mechanic is worth less than a guy who bought an already built/converted car.

If he did the swap himself, props. I have nothing against the owner, the car IS cool. Problem is that it has way too much overexposure on all forums

that is true. If i had a really nice car like that i would want to show it but not so much that people want to start copying u know. I know thats true cause i'm gona steal that same headlight look.

[thehelix112]

Auxillary,

You have a much better grasp of automotive history than I, I resind my remark that V8 OHV engines are dinosaurs. I will clarify what I meant.

I consider the fact that the 240Z had an OHC engine during a time when they were often discarded for cheaper OHV engines to be indicative of the appeal and design philosophy of the car and thus, its not something I would *personally* alter. Way too much like going backwards for me.

I also personally think that getting any serious amount of HP is both difficult and possible almost irrespective of what engine you choose to start with. Lets face it, mass-production engines aren't designed for power, they're designed to be cheap and go for a long time. If you start asking for more power, you are going to have to compromise on these two.

So I personally don't consider power to be a valid motivation for an engine conversion. Weight distribution and centre of gravity issues however, well thats much more reasonable. I have heard tell that the longitudinal weight distribution of a zed is close to 50/50 as is, and given the engine has room to go back a bit in the engine bay (if you wanna get rid of the bonnet latch and potentially run into gearbox/tunnel fitting issues) I think this isn't as important as:

Centre of gravity. This isn't a vehicle dynamics thread (and I'm not a vehicle dynamics expert) but as I understand it, the closer you get this to the roll centre (which in our cases is low) the less body roll issues you have to deal with, which is a good thing.

I agree that a V8 is cheap power (and easy gearbox strength!).

I don't agree that you should bite someones head off for getting excited about a very nice blue zed. So you've seen it before, so? Maybe someone hasn't.

Dave

[jmortensen]

I also personally think that getting any serious amount of HP is both difficult and possible almost irrespective of what engine you choose to start with. Lets face it, mass-production engines aren't designed for power, they're designed to be cheap and go for a long time. If you start asking for more power, you are going to have to compromise on these two.

This is not correct. If you want to wring the neck of a given engine and get every single hp out of a given engine, yes, that is very difficult. If you want to get a particular hp number or a particular power to weight ratio, that is easy to do, and depending on the numbers you're looking for, much easier with a swap. If I were looking for 300 hp for instance this is possible with the L6 normally aspirated, but then you're talking about a very expensive high compression engine that runs 110 octane gas. A turbo L6 can do it easily, as can a V8. Hell my Sierra pickup makes 285 hp on 87 octane gas and comes with a warranty.

So I personally don't consider power to be a valid motivation for an engine conversion. Weight distribution and centre of gravity issues however, well thats much more reasonable. I have heard tell that the longitudinal weight distribution of a zed is close to 50/50 as is, and given the engine has room to go back a bit in the engine bay (if you wanna get rid of the bonnet latch and potentially run into gearbox/tunnel fitting issues) I think this isn't as important as:

Centre of gravity. This isn't a vehicle dynamics thread (and I'm not a vehicle dynamics expert) but as I understand it, the closer you get this to the roll centre (which in our cases is low) the less body roll issues you have to deal with, which is a good thing.

Weight distribution, center of gravity, and polar moment of inertia are all improved by the JTR V8 swap with aluminum heads and manifold vs the original L6. Since the heads are splayed out in the V8 instead of standing straight up (or close) the engine is shorter and the cg is lower. The JTR is almost, not quite but almost a mid engine, meaning the PMOI is lower. The weight distribution can actually go to something like 48/52. What is "best" for the weight distribution is a matter of opinion, but I wouldn't mind 48/52. As it is my car has 50/50 now, and that's just peachy too.

I don't agree that you should bite someones head off for getting excited about a very nice blue zed. So you've seen it before, so? Maybe someone hasn't.

Alex is a little sensitive about that car. I agree with his sentiment though. The horse is freakin pulverized already. We're now beating a stain on the ground where the horse used to be.

[bemmerguy714]

I also personally think that getting any serious amount of HP is both difficult and possible almost irrespective of what engine you choose to start with. Lets face it, mass-production engines aren't designed for power, they're designed to be cheap and go for a long time. If you start asking for more power, you are going to have to compromise on these two.

So I personally don't consider power to be a valid motivation for an engine conversion. Weight distribution and centre of gravity issues however, well thats much more reasonable. I have heard tell that the longitudinal weight distribution of a zed is close to 50/50 as is, and given the engine has room to go back a bit in the engine bay (if you wanna get rid of the bonnet latch and potentially run into gearbox/tunnel fitting issues) I think this isn't as important as:

Centre of gravity. This isn't a vehicle dynamics thread (and I'm not a vehicle dynamics expert) but as I understand it, the closer you get this to the roll centre (which in our cases is low) the less body roll issues you have to deal with, which is a good thing.

I agree that a V8 is cheap power (and easy gearbox strength!).

First of all i want to say i'm know mechanic. I'm just hear trying to learn. Acordding to this website it says that

"These long rods add mass to the system, which increases the load on the valve springs. This can limit the speed of pushrod engines; the overhead camshaft, which eliminates the pushrod from the system, is one of the engine technologies that made higher engine speeds possible."

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/camshaft5.htm

It basically says that higher speeds (which is the goal of this v8 conversion) can be acieved more easily with over head camsshafts.

[thehelix112]

J,

Granted that some engines will make power easier than others, but when I say serious, i'm thinking more like 700hp. Not too many engines will do that without a bit of work.

Dave

[jmortensen]

First of all i want to say i'm know mechanic. I'm just hear trying to learn. Acordding to this website it says that

"These long rods add mass to the system, which increases the load on the valve springs. This can limit the speed of pushrod engines; the overhead camshaft, which eliminates the pushrod from the system, is one of the engine technologies that made higher engine speeds possible."

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/camshaft5.htm

It basically says that higher speeds (which is the goal of this v8 conversion) can be acieved more easily with over head camsshafts.

You still have to put this in context. What's the highest revving L series you've EVER seen? For me, it's 9000 rpm. That is a full on Rebello L16, not an L6. How about the highest revving pushrod V8? How about 10,500 rpm. I change the channel on 50 of them every day on Speed channel when I flip past to see if there is something worth watching on. To me circle track is like watching an aquarium, but the engines are there and they're spinning very high rpms every weekend.

Your example may work for the S2000 or the BMW M3 or something like that, but the L6 doesn't have a huge rev advantage over a V8 in either stock or modified form.

What's next, hp per liter? Tell me you can't get find 1000 V8's that put out 570 hp for every L28 that puts out 280 hp.

The L6 is a good solid engine. I still have one in my Z. But the high tech vs low tech or high revving vs low revving or weight or cg or hp per liter arguments just don't stand up. If you hate V8's in a Z it's probably an emotional thing. Something like "the L6 is the heart of a Z". I used to think that way too. Now I just want some cheap power that I can find parts for at the local auto parts store.

Granted that some engines will make power easier than others, but when I say serious, i'm thinking more like 700hp. Not too many engines will do that without a bit of work.

I can only think of one L6 that ever made that kind of hp, and that's the Electromotive ZX. If you've been to a hot rod car show you've probably seen a few V8's that make that kind of power in that one place. But even still when you put it in context, do you need 700 hp in your Z? I wouldn't even want 700 hp in mine. I'd spend more time replacing stub axles and differentials than driving the thing.

My $.02,

Jon

[thehelix112]

Jon,

I have to differ there: I know of one L31 that goes to 8800, and I know of L16s that go to 10500 (http://workin4u.com/jhh/edwards.html). BTW, I believe the issue with Ls not being able to rev has SFA to do with the valvetrain (its pretty clear that a pushrod OHV setup has more valve train inertia than an OHC setup and therefore the theoretical rev limit is lower as more mass has to move, the fact that so many zillion people use SBCs etc and that you can get titanium everythings for them doesn't make them equal/better to a OHC setup).

I'm not sure how we got onto the topic of RPM. But anyway,

I fully agree that V8s have a lower CoG.

My point was that you can get a great deal of usable hp from any engine in a zed including the original, and in a lot of cases more hp than the chassis can use without a great deal of work.

I don't know what your point is about V8s at hotrod shows, I did say that some engines will do it easier, my point was that those V8s, and the Electromotive ZX aren't stock engines, and there was probably a fair bit of work and money went into both.

Theoretically speaking, if you have the chassis to use 700hp, why wouldn't you use it? Need/shmeed.

Dave

[jmortensen]

Well I think we've thoroughly hijacked this thread by now, huh?! :stupid:

The point I was making was that the L6 has none of the commonly touted advantages of a OHC engine over a V8, except 40 lbs less weight. Other than that slim weight advantage, there really isn't an advantage in rpms, cg, weight distribution, hp per liter, etc. For people who want big hp it is clearly easier to do with a V8. And the main thing that sucked me into this argument was the dino engine, weight distribution, cg arguments. Those are all fallacious arguments. Maybe we should just try to get back to who has a cool looking Z, or start another thread where we can continue arguing the merits of OHV vs OHC.

EDIT:

Theoretically speaking, if you have the chassis to use 700hp, why wouldn't you use it? Need/shmeed.

That was exactly my point. I don't have the chassis to use it. I don't know why you picked that number, but it's not a very realistic number for a Z anyway.

[spudea]

Well I think we've thoroughly hijacked this thread by now, huh?! :stupid:

Yes and I don't appreciate it. Start a new thread please