Restoring fender emblem

[george71z]

Why go to all that trouble? I have a really nice emblem with the orange fill stuff in perfect shape I can let you have for $25, shipped. It even has the mtg. posts on each end with the barrel clips. (middle post is missing)

[TomoHawk]

That's the whole point, George. When you restore an old car, you really should restore what's THERE. Buying new parts isn't my idea of a restoration, assuming the part CAN be restored. If it really is too far gone, or broken, then replacement is the proper thing to do.

These old Zs have character because they have aged as a whole car, not just the emblem or the steering wheel or whatever. If restoration was just buying everything new, we'd all be driving 350Zs (yeesh!)

Add to that the great feeling of accomplishment that you really did rastore what was there, instead of taking the easy way out.

[TomoHawk]

Tomohawk, the jell substance in the badges is like a hot melt glue, if you get what I mean.

That sounds like your basic injected resin system, but in this case it looks like the resin was poured in.

I'm thinking what needs to be done is to remove the emblem, heat it up to sometemperature, then scrape off the oxidized surface layer and add a coating of some protective stuff (UV screen epoxy?)

I just hate pulling off the emblems. It seems the PO of my car used double-sided tape to attach the emblems, and I didn't find out until the first one pulled off a few patches of paint. :mad:

thx

[TomoHawk]

This is what the gell looks like now

[kenz240z]

That's the whole point, George. When you restore an old car, you really should restore what's THERE. Buying new parts isn't my idea of a restoration, assuming the part CAN be restored. If it really is too far gone, or broken, then replacement is the proper thing to do.

Definition of restore, from Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary:

Main Entry: re·store

Pronunciation: ri-'stOr, -'stor

Function: transitive verb

Inflected Form(s): re·stored; re·stor·ing

Etymology: Middle English, from Old French restorer, from Latin restaurare to renew, rebuild, alteration of instaurare to renew

1 : GIVE BACK, RETURN

2 : to put or bring back into existence or use

3 : to bring back to or put back into a former or original state : RENEW

As applied to a vehicle, it would mean that the vehicle should be in the same shape/condition/appearance as when it rolled off the showroom floor. With a 30 + year old car (I have a '73 240Z) , a strict restoration can be a very expensive and time consuming project. I've already got about $6000 and a year and a half's worth of working nights & weekends in my Z even though my intention is not, nor ever has been, to restore the vehicle.

I agree with Tomohawk to a point, in that I like to work with the parts on the car as much as possible. Items like the emblems can be made to look like new, but they must be in good shape to start with. So, if something is too far gone to work with, then a suitable replacement must be found. Also, it is sometimes cheaper to purchase a replacement rather than use the original part. The shiny finish on the plastic trim pieces on the Z cars isn't chrome. It is actually aluminum that is applied using a vacuum process. Finding a shop that can refinish these parts can be difficult and expensive. For trim parts where the shiny finish is flaking off it is going to be cheaper to purchase a replacement.

There are many items on a car that simply wear out with time in the interior, under the hood, on the suspension and on the body. Whether it is carpeting, a ball joint, a strut insert, or a trim piece, a worn out part should be replaced.

I'd love nothing more than to have new, or more specifically, New Old Stock parts on my Z. It would be the only way to truly attempt to restore my car. But, these parts are getting more and more scarce and expensive. Try finding braided radiator hoses. Not exactly my idea of taking the easy way out. Furthermore, many of the items available today are superior in performance and quality to what was originally available on the Z. Paint, struts and tires are just a few that come to mind.

Ultimately, it comes down to a person's goal. For some it is simply to keep a daily driver running, no matter what shape the paint & interior are in. For others, it is having that pristine concours show car. I'd guess that most folks here are somewhere in the middle, we want a nice looking, nice performing Z car!

One car nut's 2 cents worth...

[TomoHawk]

from Latin restaurare

That's awfully close to 'restaurant,' so I like that idea!

[240znz]

Each to their own, but I'd sooner spend the money on new fender emblems than spent valuable time in restoring them. As explained above, it is more likely to cost you more than a new one and to get it "right" and "period" anyway.

I've purchased all new emblems for my project. I'll put them on and keep the old ones as they are rare and very hard to source. Besides, if I'm spending all this money on my new paint, any emblem resto will jump out at you like a beacon against a flawless paint job. I just couldn't bring myself to do that.

Each to their own though eh! What ever tickles your fancy guys and gals.

[hls30.com]

The shiny finish on the plastic trim pieces on the Z cars isn't chrome. It is actually aluminum that is applied using a vacuum process. ...

Kenny,

I think You are mistaken about the "chrome" on the early Z plastic emblems being aluminum. I have looked into the processes used in the early 70s.

If you peel the "chrome" off there is clearly a layer of copper on top of the plastic and under the chrome. The layer of copper proves that the emblems actually were chrome plated, and not vacuum deposited aluminum-on the interior door-panel trim, it could be the aluminum, but given that in my research, the process was first patented in 1968, and refined to provide a more consistant cosmetic appearance in 1981-it does not appear that the vacuum depositing process would have been in widespread use until at least the late 70s.

I doubt that any of the trim in a 240Z is actually aluminum, though some of the later Nissan replacement parts might well be.

Will

[kenz240z]

Hi Will,

I looked at a piece of the heater control panel from my 240Z that broke off (the bottom edge of the radio opening). Some of the shiny stuff is peeling off, and sure enough, there is what appears to be a copper layer on the bottom. So that part was chrome plated. I also looked at a 240Z "Datsun" fender emblem that I found in a salvage yard. It has some shiny stuff peeling off from the backside. I peeled up a little more, but there is no evidence of a copper layer. Could it be that different plating techniques were used for different parts? :squareeye

BTW, from what I've read, Ford was the first domestic automaker to use vacuum metalizing. Ford used it for a speedometer housing in 1957. By the '60's, vacuum metalizing began to see wider use by all the domestic automakers.

Forgive me, though, as all of this is secondary. My point was that it can become cost prohibitive to replate trim parts as part of the effort to refinish them, as opposed to the cost of purchasing a NOS or quality reproduction part. Try to find a plater that will accept plastic pieces for rechroming, and when you do, be prepared for the high cost. :eek:

[hls30.com]

Kenny,

I am sure different parts are done different ways-if the exterior pieces were done exactly the same way as the interior pieces, they would have fallen apart long ago-chrome on top of copper is only a temporary thing, without the nickel, the porousity of the chrome lets the copper corrode almost immediately.

The chrome strips on the door pannels may well be aluminum.

Zrush had the vents in the hood chome plated(Plastic) in another thread Scott had said it was expensive, and done with no warranty.

There is a place in Tallahassee, Fl. that does chrome plate plastic-no clue as to how expensive-I bought NOS parts, and saved the best used examples for when those are NLA...

Will

[1 Bravo 6]

Hey there Will,

The "Chrome" strips on the door panels seems to me to be more like an alfoil over plastic strips, covered with a clear plastic which gives it the "Chrome" look. The strips can be found in junk yards, on the rear bumpers of reasonably modern cars. A clean up and the application of double sided tape and HEY PRESTO !!!!!!!!!!!

Rick.

:devious: :devious: