R33 suspension in 240z

[zedzilla]

I think i would have to agree that by the time I fork out the $$$ for the cradle, wizz around getting the thing mounted it probly wont handle any better than a well set up z rear end anyway and I'll be wishing i never attempted it!

[AllDat]

Hi all,

Long time listener, first time caller.

The 240Z in question belongs to my father and I would like to answer a few of the questions raised.

We opted for the R33 rear end as opposed to modifying the standard set-up for the following reasons:

- R200 Viscous LSD

- huge vented discs and 2 spot callipers

- 5 wheel stud pattern

- Constant Velocity jointed half shafts

There were no body modifications made.

The cradle was heavily modified and the track was narrowed 90mm

The rear steering rack was removed

As for handling, Dad didn't push it too hard at the Goulburn nationals as it is a street/show car with 18 inch wheels. (Dad hasn't had much track time either)

I had a simmilar rear end (180SX) in my old 1600(510) wagon which handled really well on the track (remember the Z nationals in queensland in 2003?)

We found that the R33 conversion was quite cost effective (not including our labour).

The main reason that we did it was that it fit well with the theme of the car (New technology)

and that it hadn't been tried before.

Regards

Graeme.

Also, The cradle is surprisingly light and any added weight is in the huge brakes

[Gee]

Can you post some photos?

The ones in the mag were trying to be arty and didn't allow the reader to actually see properly what had been done! :stupid:

[260DET]

When looking at such a conversion I weighed a bare S13 rear cradle which was around 28kg, not much lighter than a R200 diff. Think that the S13 cradle is a bit lighter than the Skyline job too.

As I said before, the Sydney car is a beauty and its great to see people trying different things and telling us about them

<<< Avatar car has been converted to CV axles and has big rear brakes while retaining the stock suspension. It also has a R180 ATB diff, strong enough and a bit lighter than the R200. But to each their own

[bpilati]

The Stock 240Z is a great handling car. Even in a worn out state, it can still take a curve pretty respectably. That just goes to show that it's more than struts and springs that make the 240Z handle, it's the entire suspension system geometry that was engineering well. The Datsun engineers could have very easily and lazily just transferred the 510 suspension over to the Z, but they didn't. They came up with a unique design for this car. You think there was a reason for that? They weren't fools, that's for sure. You think there was a reason that they angled the struts inward; I've seen many cars that don't? Were they making room for other tires?

[jmortensen]

A stock Z handles like a wallowing pig. A worn out stock Z handles worse. According to zhome.com a brand spankin new 70 Z pulled .73g on the skidpad.

Looks like the Jeep Liberty, Kia Sorento, and Suzuki XL-7 posted very similar numbers to a stock Z at .74, .73, and .72g: http://motortrend.com/roadtests/suv/112_0404_suvs/index11.html

The Z is a great platform for modifications and can be made to handle very well, but it isn't that great out of the box.

By the way what car have you seen that has MacPherson struts that do not angle inward? I've worked on quite a few, never seen a vertical setup that I can recall.

[260DET]

Tyres, Jon?

[jmortensen]

Yeah, tires will make a difference. I stand by my statement though. A stock Z handles like a wallowing pig.

Richard's Z on the other hand... But then again Richard has changed a lot of that bitchin factory suspension geometry, haven't you Richard?

[Mr Camouflage]

Driven lots of wallowing pigs?

[ecp48]

Jon,

You are confusing a modern car with a chassis that is over 30 years old.

Back in the day, no one would have accused a Z of handling like a "wallowing pig", but things change and even SUVs have to handle to sell, even if only for safety reasons. I know the 72 Z I spent a lot of time in, outhandled an MGB, the TR-4A, or my much loved 100-4 Austin Healey.

I was once playing in a friends 67 Corvette, 427/435 tri-power four speed. I went into a double apex corner under full throttle and fully experienced the negatives in wallowing handling (torque steer), the rubber bushings compressed and the rear wanted to go to the inside of the corner. The owner was ready to drop a pile in the front seat next to me. The biggest difference is you had to drive what you had, with all of the built in quirks. Such as, sliding/drifting the Healey if you wanted to get around a corner quickly.

The challenge to make a Z handle and run better than a modern car is what has many of us involved, plus the Z charisma.

You want to drive a wallowing pig, try a 1970s LTD, Caprice or even a Malibu or Lemans.

In my case, I hate being eaten alive by a Honda leaving a traffic light, when I'm driving a Z!

[jmortensen]

You are confusing a modern car with a chassis that is over 30 years old.

And here I was thinking that bpilati was the one that was confused when he said "The Stock 240Z is a great handling car. Even in a worn out state, it can still take a curve pretty respectably." I agree that the Z was a great handling car back in the day, but it can't hold a candle to most sedans on the road today in stock form.

The challenge to make a Z handle and run better than a modern car is what has many of us involved, plus the Z charisma.

Agreed. That's what I love about track days and autox in my Z. I've got mine to the point that I consider it a very good handling car, but it is very far from stock form, and like Richard I've changed most of the suspension geometry to get it to handle. I love my Z for what it is and what I've made it, but I don't fool myself about it's capabilities.

Back to the point of the thread for a moment, I don't see a real advantage to putting R33 suspension under a Z. Spend that time and money modifying the stock setup and it should do all you need it to do while carting around less weight.

Jon

[260DET]

Agree with Jon. A well driven good but not exceptional modern car can give a stockish S30 a very hard time, used to happen to me on the track Why can they be quick? Chassis and suspension.

The challenge with the S30 is to improve on something which already looks quick to make it so. And to harass more expensive sports cars Passed the Mondial soon after that pic was taken.