This subject was brought up under another thread. This is a debate wether the z v8 transplant is worth the trouble? With engine style is better? Which engine revs higher? Which one is older? BAsically which do u prefer and why do u prefer it?

In contrast a friend of mine has a '69 Vette which he bought and built for less than $10,000 and it runs 11.5 in the 1/4. No it doesnt look mint and is not finished yet, but still 11.5 for $10,000..........

I'm just saying that whats better is only better if it is attainable to you.

I know old domestic iron is easy to wrench on and cheap to build, etc, but there are plenty of cheap imports (and domestics that qualify as sport compacts) that can run fast 1/4 miles for cheap.

Case-in-point (I'll give 2 tastey examples). First is a 1985-1989 Dodge Omni. Buy one of these crap-buckets for $200 bucks at a junkyard and swap in the Turbo II 2.5 liter, 8 valve SOHC turbocharged in-line 4. Stock, it doesn't put up any pole-swinging numbers, only 150 or so ponies, but is manages nearly 190 foot pounds of torque (this is a later 1980's engine we're talking about). But, modified, the engine is an absolute beast. Swap in a 2.2L high-quench head, aggressive cam, and a huffing T3/T4 hybrid turbo and a front-mounted intercooler and you can run into the 12's all day long. Then, if you're feeling frisky, go for an even larger turbo and IC, step up the fuel system and engine management, and gut the interior to full race trim. And ta-da! The magic 11's in a domestic POS that cost less than 10 grand. And, it's FWD too.

Second tantalizing example of cheap-arse speed: A first-generation DSM (or an all-wheel drive Eclipse GSX, Eagle Talon, or Plymouth Laser for those who aren't familiar with the Diamond Star Motor creations). One of these all-wheel drive imports can be had for under 4K. They use the fabled Mitsubishi 4G63 2.0 liter iron-block, DOHC, 16-valver with a stock turbo and intercooler boosting just over 11 psi. There are plenty cheap-speed ideas, including a $5 hardware shop-sourced bleed valve and vacuum line set-up to trick the turbo into giving you another 2 psi. But tuned, look out. These DSM's fly. I've seen some handily put down 460-hp to all the wheels and easily run into the low 11's if not the high 10's (with a gutted interior, weight reduction, and drag slicks to get to the 10's). But for 10K, I think you could easily get a first-gen DSM into the 11's. In fact, I know you can because I've seen it.

Of course, you could purchase a '69 Chevy Camaro shell and drop in a Merlin 509 OHV crate engine that STOCK puts out over 500-bhp and 550 foot pounds of torque, put in a Richmond 5 or 6-speed gearset (or a GM Power-Glide if that's your thing), some stiffer rear springs and run C-14 race gas and spank the quarter mile in about 11 seconds easily.

Also, I can't help but like Jason's point of view. Pushrod motor are cheaper and cheaper to make go fast because they have been around for 60-plus years, where as the OHC engine wasn't mainstream until the 80's (and even then it was only reserved for in-line engines, OHC didn't hit the V block engine until the late '80's and early '90's).

Say Nissan made something like 400 million RB blocks, around the same amount of pushrod V-8's that are out there by Ford, Chevy, Chrsyler, Dodge, etc. They RB then wouldn't cost you an arm and a leg, and they would be easier to tune for cheaper amounts of money. It's the simple fact of Supply and Demand. But, of course, this is a mute point because history didn't work that way. What a shame.

But I agree this argument will never be settled, like a turbo vs NA battle. It will never happen. But, that doesn't mean we can't talk about it and share our views so we can hopefully understand the other person. Who knows, maybe you'll get smarter if you pay attension.

Dave

B16A2 99-00 SI motor has a redline between 8-9k rpm. revlimiter at 8200rpm

B18C5 in the integra Type R has 8400rpm redline to 9k

F20C in the S2000 has a 9-10k rpm redline. They upped it to 2.2 liter and dropped the redline by 1k for last 2 model years

My L24 had some massive valve float at 6000rpm

Where the hell are you getting these numbers? First off, I said no stock CIVIC could rev to 9k from the FACTORY. The Si, as you pointed out, revs to 8200 rpm, not 9000.

And, I'm pretty sure the B18C5R (the Integra Type-R motor) doesn't rev to 9k from the factory either, I think it was 8900 rpm.

And, the S2000 (a car I wasn't talking about) peaked at a few ticks UNDER 9k, not 10k. I know this because when the RX-8 debuted, it replaced the S2000 as the highest-revving car for sale in the USA. The RX-8 goes to 9k.

Sure, you could re-flash the ecu to re-set the rev limiter. I'm sure the stock B18c5r could rev to 9k without throwing a rod, but I wouldn't want to try it if I want my engine to last more than 50k miles.

And, yes, valve float can happens in OHC engines but it's more likely to strike in pushrod motor because of all the extra weight and kenetic energy. A typical V-8 with an aggressive cam will experience valve float at about 6,500 rpm. Almost no OHC engine (if I dare so NO ohc engine) will ever experience valve float at that rpm.

Any readers of Grassroots Motorsports here? If not, pick up a copy... you'll be glad you did!

Case in point the $2,0## challenge they hold every year. Insert the year for the ## ( i.e. this year, 2005, = the $2005 challenge). Build the best car you can for no more than $2k-ish and compete in a autoX, dragrace and a concours. Best overall wins.

This years winner was an 88 RX-7 with a Ford 302... the dudes got less than 2,000 in it and it runs 11.6 in the 1/4. Also a '62 Fiat with a 350 running 11.4. Of course I'd take the 71 240z with the L28ET and it's 13.0 time, come on, it's a series 1... what the heck would I do with a ford powered RX-7 anyway? :cross-eye

Anyways - cool mag - plenty of turbo'd Dodges, DSM's and rotory powered thingy's.

Nate

I have an answer to that 4.3L v6 analogy...

Those motors come from an era when manufacturers did not care about a motor lasting longer than 100k miles, and certainly wanted to do their best to turn as much profit as possible.

The 4.3 Liter V6 in my 1992 Chevy K1500 regular cab shortbox pickup is sneaking up on 150,000 miles and other than a couple of alternators and a fuel pump it has been worry free. I just make sure the fluids and filters are changed when necessary. It will get out and pass on the freeway and has hauled many a load and pulled a bass boat or two. Granted the best gas milage it has ever gotten is something just south of 20 miles per gallon (when it was still new, and all highway driving). It is after all a 4x4. If and when the engine does crap out I'm going to have it rebuilt or a remanufactured one put in its place. The style isn't so dated I can't live with it and at the cost of a new pickup nowadays, I could buy a whole lot of gas by staying away from the new models. I have quite a lot of respect for this little V6 4.3L. Maybe not the engine for my Z, but for the ol' truck it works fine.

hey Nate, is that magazine a monthly publication or is it one of those under-funded mags that only produces a few issues a year? Otherwise I might suscribe. Have a web address??

Dave

I second that, many of chevy's V6's of this time period (they're all variations on the same design) are very good engines. For example the 3.8L that GM started using during this time period is still used today, and is a reliable motor so long as proper maintenance is done. This engine has be effectively used in cars, trucks, and been supercharged in many of the vehicles that use it. Now, in the new Grand Prix GTP it puts out 265hp, even though its an outdated pushrod engine design.

www.grassrootsmotorsports.com

Bill just posted the web site.

It is NOT a monthly mag. It is technically a bi-monthly mag but they're up to about 8 or so a year now. You're local Barnes and Noble or Books a Million will stock it and the last issue was August 05 and was released just a couple of weeks ago. It is an outstanding mag and very well written. I love it and have been a subscriber since 2000.

They also own Classic Motorsports.

www.classicmotorsports.net

Nate

I particularly liked the Rotary Spitfire they did some years back. Nothing like putting a light, powerful motor into a light agile chassis... wonder what side of the V8 vs L6 argument they'd be on...

Ah yes the Ro-spit. Damn that's an ugly car. I believe that, like this site, they would be torn. As I'm sure you've noticed they've featured a few Z's in the past... and outside of the Challenge cars (which they don't build) they've all been L6 powered that I can recall. But like I said I think they would be torn, because they do like mixed up cars too. I bet they would build one for a sanctioned race class though.

my 2 cents

I FINALLY FOUND THE ANSWER TO OUR DEBATE!!!!!!!!!

It was Mr. Teal in the library with the candlestick!!!