Is it possible to 'break even' on a Z...

[Zvoiture]

Ever sold a Z and made money? Is it possible?

steve77

[Mike]

Good poll!

Most of the people I have met tell me that they just do it for the love of the car. There's really no way to actually make money on a rig unless it's totally restored to original specs and sold as a pristine remanufactured car.

Then again, isn't this true for all cars in general? Except maybe for exotic cars that are used for investment rather than driving.

[Zvoiture]

The Z car is at a strange place in the value system of 'collectable cars'. I think they are just at the cusp of desirable. There are still too many of them. They are pretty easy to find. They are cheap. They are still somewhat young--25 years is a pretty international number for collectability. I think a large portion of the collectable car 'economy' is generated in the US, and 99% of car collectors in the US have a sick 'American iron' mentality. They are cheap little trashy econocars from Japan, after all--they're not REAL sports cars. Yeah, and the Mustang is a REAL sports car.

Give it another 5 years for the 240's and another 10 or 15 for the 280's. There are just too many sub-$1000 cars out there. But I think 240's are starting to climb a wee bit. There is a BUNCH of crap out there for $1000-2000, which is GOOD! 280's are still a dime a dozen. The really funny part is how running Z's are worth more to the casual driver than they are to the Z enthusiast. How many times have you seen a running Z sell for $1500 that you or I wouldn't give $500 for?

Just a bunch of random thoughts.

steve77

[jcdozier]

Zvoiture:

I agree with all you said except the "Give it another 5 years for the 240's......." As long as there are a substantial number of folks like the ones in this forum, there will continue to be too many Z-cars out there to drive the values up. (We may be our own worst enemies.)

The early Z is just too much fun to drive, too easy to keep running well, and too easy to modify into a "personal statement" to fade away quickly. How many 25-30 year-old cars have such an active "industry" supplying things like frame rails to recover rusted out diamonds in the rough? Most rust-buckets go to the junk yard, rusty Z's inspire delusions of grandure.

Once you get past the Mustang crowd, (one of my son's has a '67, so I know something of their enthusiasm) it's difficult to find another group as dedicated to parts swapping, greasy hands and skinned knuckles as the Z-nuts. I think we're going to keep them way too numerous for the high-end of the collector car bracket for much longer than five years.

[Zvoiture]

"I think we're going to keep them way too numerous for the high-end of the collector car bracket for much longer than five years."

You're right. How many Austins do you see at the junk yard? How many MG's? How many XKE 'project cars' do you see in the classifieds?

steve77

[Oleo1975]

I used to be in to Mini-trucks---no not a real "g-ride" but something to play with and turn some heads. I lost my @$$ when I sold and will probably do the same if I don't keep this for ever; I said that about the truck and it lasted 4 years. But with the 240 I have discovered something. Your best bet is buy the cheapest car out there and then donate it to kidney foundation or someting simmilar. For your write off you print the NADA price(which I think is based on the resoration movement) of $13000!!!! Not money in the bank----but money from uncle sam

Matt

IZCC #11660

73 240z (just getting started)

[jcdozier]

A $13,000 charitable deduction, huh? Wonder how many times one could do that before the Infernal Revenue Service got curious and checked? You may have come up with a great new incentive for rescuing old, rusted out Z's.

[Mike]

Originally posted by MattOlander

I used to be in to Mini-trucks---no not a real "g-ride" but something to play with and turn some heads. I lost my @$$ when I sold and will probably do the same if I don't keep this for ever; I said that about the truck and it lasted 4 years. But with the 240 I have discovered something. Your best bet is buy the cheapest car out there and then donate it to kidney foundation or someting simmilar. For your write off you print the NADA price(which I think is based on the resoration movement) of $13000!!!! Not money in the bank----but money from uncle sam

Matt, I'm not sure how many times that would work in a lifetime. But, I seriously doubt that it's all that smart to do. It's a good idea, but, once an audit rolls around, I wonder how the IRS deals with a situation like that.

I'm not stating that this is a bad idea, I'm simply questioning the process that they use to put a value on something like that. Maybe they only look at Blue Book value as a reasonable amount to donate. It's really the only piece of evidence of worth (besides receipts and there aren't any of those).

I'm going to send this message to one of our local CPA's for his advice, Kyle. He should give his $0.02 on this issue.

-- Mike

[Kyle]

The CPA puts on his tie and starts the billable-hours clock ticking:

As regards to taking a tax deduction for the high book value of a rusted out car.... first off, a good rule of thumb is to stand in front of a mirror and see if you can say it out loud without laughing. If you even bust a grin, you're not gonna make it.

A noncash charitable contribution deduction (Salvation Army clothing, f'rinstance) is the lesser of your cost basis or fair market value. If it is over $500 you need some additional documentation, and if it's over $5000 you need a written appraisal.

So the $13,000 Z deduction is laughable for a number of reasons - you only paid $700 for it, so that's your max, and even so, you wouldn't get a written appraisal for $13K. Sure you *could* but that's tax fraud, and I'm too young and pretty to go to jail.

Finally, this deduction is one of the IRS's hot buttons now, meaning they're going after it like nobody's business, as it's a fairly simple way to slash your taxes with minimal effort. These things are VERY likely to generate an audit.

You might get away with it once or twice or even a million times, but you may also get caught... Audit Roulette, anyone?! Don't forget penalties, interest, and the 25% fraud penalty.

As to making money on a Z, don't be ridiculous! Of course it is. Just make a good buy, put limited dollars into it, and turn it around. Will you make boucous bucks on a full resto? Not likely... but if you buy a decent car for $1000, get it running right, maybe make some small improvements here and there, you could sell it again for $2500. The gain is of course taxable and I'll expect to see it on each and every one a ya's Schedule D's next year... oh, and the loss on the resto is nondeductible. Go uncle sam! :sick:

Hope this is helpful,

Kyle

'72 Resto in progress, no I don't plan to make money on it.

[Oleo1975]

DRAT!!! I knew it was too good to be true---maybe we need to just stay under the $5000 mark:rolleyes: Or better yet just plan on keeping the car

Thanks Kyle, guess this is good advise---even from someone that didi buy a Volvo.

[SammyBuca]

Paid 3.5K for my machine 10 years ago. I've put only about $500 into it until I did the floor, rails, and rockers (picked it up Saturday). I'm now up to 6.5K. I have this car for the love of it. I didn't plan on making money, that's my autobody mechanics dream!

[grantman240z]

bought my old 72 240z last September for $2400. I put about $1000 into it and wrecked it. The insurance settlement was $5100! Must have been pretty lucky....