Hurricane Katrina

[zguitar71]

The people that chose not to leave were also most of the poorest people in the city, a city with over 23% at or below the poverty line. Could any one afford a car or gas or a place to flee too at $12,500 or less a year? Given the option I bet most would have left. Most of the poor do not have cars though, and the trains and busses out of town quit running 1-2 days before the storm hit. It has long been known that this type of disaster could hit the area, why were there not evac plans including bussing out the poorest people or people with out means to leave before the storm hit or have a stock of food and water for the people that could not leave? It is entirely ignorant to believe the people traped inside the city chose to stay. Some did and always will but most did not.

Bush is very late in responding. He should have flown to the area directly after the storm exited not 5 days later. No one is asking Bush to get his hands dirty in the rescue effort but he could have listened to the different agencies that were warning of this eminent disaster for many years now and given funding for an update of the levee system as opposed to cutting of the funds. Bush could have not stayed on vacation until Wednesday. Chainey, where is he? Last I heard he is still in Wyoming on vacation. And Mrs. Rice was in N.Y. City on Thursday buying over a thousand dollars in shoes while on vacation. Though the Cabinet is surley concerned, they do a poor job showing it.

Evidently Hurricanes are to be taken lightly judging from the reactions of the Bush Cabinet. If they were not taken lightly then the proper plans for evac and aid and an updated levee system would have been in place many years ago. For a long time it has been known a storm of this magnitude in New Orleans would leave the city flooded, breach the levees and strand many thousands of residents.

I am not the only one that thinks things are not giong well, President Bush announced today the relief effort has been sub-par.

[2003z]

I think it's important to get the facts about the levee system. It was only designed for a category 3 storm so even if the whole project was complete it might not have helped with a category 4 or 5. The levee projects being discussed as underfunded are scheduled for completion in the year 2015 even with a full budget.

Here is the Army Corps of Engineers for New Orleans site with lots of reliable information:

http://www.mvn.usace.army.mil/pao/response/index.asp

Here is a project specific to the New Orleans vicinity. The other projects are up and down the river:

http://www.mvn.usace.army.mil/pao/visitor/lkpon1.asp

And while this might have been only a level 3 storm when it hit, the levels are only based on wind speeds. Based on barometric pressure, (which causes the storm surge), it was the 4th most powerful hurricane in recorded history!

[boyblunda]

My mother was attending a Conference and staying at a hotel in New Orleans until 0400 hours on Sunday morning and it took her some time and effort to be able to organise their own evacuation. In the preceding 24 hours no hire cars or commercial transport was available until she was lucky enough to combine with a few others and hire a taxi that took them to Baton Rouge. Traffic was bumper to bumper. The group then hired a car to drive to Dallas where they were able to make plane connections and, thankfully, get safely home.

She was part of a well resourced group with no ties in New Orleans who were fortunate enough to be able to afford any option that was available. They also had some very capable and well organised people working to assist the attendees of the Conference to aid in securing their evacuation. I would imagine that there were many many people who did not have that assistance, focus and resources.

An ex military person with some meteorological training, who runs a bed and breakfast in New Orleans, was interviewed on Australian national radio on Monday morning and he and his wife were going to sit out the storm in their own home thinking that they would be okay. They sounded as though they were preparing themselves well and I certainly hope that they are in fact okay.

However, there must be a huge number of people who did not have the means or the facility to escape the city and they are the ones requiring most assistance and support at this point in time. There will be support from both within the USA and from their allies. The problem will be in identifying the need and developing the best strategies to deal with the problems. Many well intentioned aid efforts leapt in prematurely or inapropriately into the Tsunami relief and were ineffective.

The response is getting quite some coverage in Australia and there is a lot of sympathy and feeling here for what the southern coastal areas of the USA is dealing with at the moment. Support will follow once the needs and best avenues are identified.

[CoastGuardZ]

If you honestly think that there was NOT an evacuation plan then the air in the big sky country is thinner than previously thought. I spent 22 years of my life living in the middle of hurricane alley, I will tell you this - ALL coastal cities and towns have evacuation routes, plans and guidelines in effect. The general populace hardly ever cares to pay any attention until it's too late. And to think that a city, town or county (parish) would have a plan to get the poverty stricken out and moved to an entirely different area that would offer protection from the rain and wind bands of the very same storm is purely ludacris! Okay so they move the entire welfare supported section of the city to high ground, now it becomes that same city's job, that is now in total chaos and underwater, to provide food water and shelter to these people that they moved - for the entire time it takes to make the city habitable again. Impossible. Impractical.

And yes I can see your point, the situation would be sooo much better if the president had flown in a few days sooner... okay I'm lying... this would have no weight on the situation at all. NOLA would still be submerged, and people would still be rescued the exact same way... remember AF1 had to stay well above the helicopter flight lines. The best view of the city is the same ones that everyone got/gets to see on all major news networks... the 1500 ft and lower video footage from the helos. And if the President Vice President and Ms. Rice were all standing in the NOLA area exactly what would that accomplish? With all the press and enterage that follows them around they would be in the way more than anything. They can get more accomplished in a phone call than if they show up to the devastated city anyway.

Evidently Hurricanes are to be taken lightly judging from the reactions of the Bush Cabinet. If they were not taken lightly then the proper plans for evac and aid and an updated levee system would have been in place many years ago. For a long time it has been known a storm of this magnitude in New Orleans would leave the city flooded, breach the levees and strand many thousands of residents.

And these people still decide to live there. Now that statement will bring back more criticism of poverty and poor - but then again, God helps those who help themselves.

Bickering does nothing and serves no purpose... Here's some food for thought.

My new tour has me as the XO of a transmitting station, so I am in no way involved with water transit and safety. Today I got a call from a concerned citizen that thinks he has an idea on how to repair the levee. I have absolutely no idea what he's talking about but all he wanted to do was help. So I forwarded him to someone that knows what he's talking about and just maybe they will be able to use his idea down there. But even if they can't at least he tried. So I close again...

"IF YOU'RE NOT PART OF THE SOLUTION, THEN YOU ARE PART OF THE PROBLEM!"

Oh, boyblunda...

You have made a rational and intelligent statement. I believe that you are dead on with...

The problem will be in identifying the need and developing the best strategies to deal with the problems. Many well intentioned aid efforts leapt in prematurely or inapropriately into the Tsunami relief and were ineffective.

and

Support will follow once the needs and best avenues are identified.

I also think that this is similar to the San Fran quake of '89 (?) . There is just soooo much devastation that it will literally take months just to put out the main "fires", and really get started with the rebuild.

I could go on for pages but it's not solving anything, therefore I am just adding to the problem.

[zguitar71]

The air is not rare in higher altitudes, O2 levels stay constant; however, there is not enough pressure to allow absorbtion by the lungs. Missoula is only 3200 feet in elevation, not enough to make a difference.

I never ment they did not have an evac plan. What I ment: the plan is/was inadequate. Every city has evac plans for the natural disasters that may strike the area, but are they good enough? Many cities will probably review their plans from this event. I do believe the populants of a disaster area weather poor or wealthy should be given shelter until rebuilding can take place regardless of the impracticality of the undertaking. We should take care of our own people, and I think that will happen in this situation, not to would be criminal.

Again I do not think the President needed to get his hands dirty, an of course an earlier presents would not stop the flood but it would help reasure some of the people there and in the rest of the country.

[CoastGuardZ]

Here's what Nissan is doing to help...

http://www.nissannews.com/corporate/news/current/20050831085043.shtml

And here's a little something from the account's payable department...

http://www.nissannews.com/corporate/news/current/20050901022713.shtml

Nate

[CoastGuardZ]

Chris,

Rightly said and I do concur. FWIW, I appreciate the sarcasm in the first sentence... brought a much needed smile!

Cheers,

Nate

[GunnerRob]

And these people still decide to live there. Now that statement will bring back more criticism of poverty and poor - but then again, God helps those who help themselves.

Nate, first off, I'd like to help you bring the balance back toward the center by saying that I concur with this statement as well as all that I've read in your posts in this thread. It smacks of the importance of taking personal responsibility for your well being.

"IF YOU'RE NOT PART OF THE SOLUTION, THEN YOU ARE PART OF THE PROBLEM!"

Too many people would rather take the "me too" approach and blame the head guy instead of getting all the facts, then ACTING on them.

I also think that this is similar to the San Fran quake of '89 (?). There is just soooo much devastation that it will literally take months just to put out the main "fires", and really get started with the rebuild.

Recent estimates are saying 3 months just to pump out the city. And most homes, after being flooded for that long, will have to be bulldozed down and rebuilt. Can you say "stilts"?

[hls30.com]

Given that this has happened, and no one with enough authority to get it carried out was worried enough about that possability to have a truely viable plan for prevention in place, I think the pivotal failure of the government (local/state/federal in that order) was not to place people and working communication equipment (A short wave on batteries, a sat.phone)at the very least in the areas that were designated as shelters in the evacuation plan with the first relief feet in the area. The biggest excuse I have heard was: "we didn't know".

The biggest short coming was "you did not provide a way to know" Communication in and out is the only way to have a responsive and effective implementation of a plan of this scale. Most poeple must march the same direction, but in order to do that they must know the direction. If there were people and effective communication equipment in place, who didn't pass the info on, or who didn't listen. Infrastructure should not be getting intel first from a private news source

AS with most things involving more than one person, effective communication is the key.

If the lines of communication had been firmly established, there would have been no wait and see attitude-the seeing would have been immediate.

Resources weren't the problem-communicating that they were needed and exactly where and what it would take to get them there was.

Will

PS. Some people don't really pay attention to where they choose to live, some people don't really have a choice, this dose of awareness was too expensive given the knowledge of the geography that was available to elected officials.

When you don't know to ask a question, you usually don't ask it, but when someone represents you, you rely on them to ask it, and to inform you if the answer is important.

Insurance is someone else willing to bet you won't have a problem when you bet that you will. Wonder what is going to happen to the odds.

[CoastGuardZ]

Some people don't really pay attention to where they choose to live, some people don't really have a choice, this dose of awareness was too expensive given the knowledge of the geography that was available to elected officials.

Will, I have to disagree with you on this. In fact I would have to say that there is no way that these people didn't know the geographical blunders of New Orleans. I knew as a kid growing up in Charleston. Every time a hurricane thinks about going towards NOLA every news organization brings up the fact that NOLA sits below sea level, and is nearly surrounded by water. In fact a band called The Tragically Hip (our Canadian friends know who I'm talking about) had a song on their 1989 album Up To Here called "New Orleans is Sinking". This has been popular public knowledge for years.

Nate

"New Orleans is sinkin' man I don't wanna swim"

[ZwolleY]

Too bad Bambikiller is not around to contribute to this thread. International help is on the way: Sri Lanka (of all places!) is sending aid and El Savador has offered to send national guard troops. I am sure there are others in addition to these and Canada. Bush claimed in a television appearance Thursday, "No one ever imagined the levees breaking". Add this to to his Irac policy and you wonder what sort of man is leading this country.

[lan240]

I am in Madison, MS just outside of Jackson, MS and we were with out power until last night. The situation is so much worse south of me and I can not imagne what people are doing just to make it through the day. The gas shortage is making it harder for people to get back to their homes to start rebulding and getting their lifes back in order.