Removing Over-spray on dash

[Marty Rogan]

I am going to look at a supposedly "perfect" dash. He did say that there is red overspray on it though. Doesn't sound so perfect, does it.

So, is there a good way of removing red overspray on a dash without harming the already fragile vinyl?

TIA,

Marty

[Ed]

Hey Marty,

During my restoration I found overspray on some of the plastic interior pieces. I tried some solvent but that would discolor the plastic. Long term effects?? Who knows. The only thing that worked good was water and a set of brushes. You can usually buy them in a set from automotive and hardware stores. One nylon, one brass and one stainless steel. Start with the nylon, hopefully it will come right off. If not move up to the brass. The brass will scratch the plastic so be carefull. If it still won't come off then use the stainless brush. The stainless brush will remove plastic material, kind of like sand paper. Don't use it too long. Use small circular strokes. Then protect it using your favorite protectant (armor-all, formula 2000, etc..) Only you will know where the overspray was when your done.

[zhead240]

maybe best to just go over the red with black shoe polish ( or paint).just a suggestion.i've never tried it.

[Marty Rogan]

Thanks Ed.

I was thinking about using a product called "Goof-Off", which has worked well on wood and metals. I am just not sure how vinyl would react to it.

Marty

[Chino 240Z]

Marty, if you use any solvent try it on the edge or somewhere it won't show incase it attacks to old plastics? "Goof-off" is mild & pretty safe. I also like using "Oops" I get it at Wal-Fart. So far oops has worked a little bit better than goof-off for me and never messed up anything I've painted with plastic model building.

It smells gooood too.. :stupid:

Older overspray may be little more difficult to remove than newer. Hope it is more recent from a sloppy painter?

[240ZX]

Great info Chino! Never heard of those products before. I was going to suggest mineral oil. If you let it site for a bit it usually will loosen the overspray. As Chino says....always test the fluids you intend to use on a small out of the way spot to see if it may gamage the finish.

[EScanlon]

...snip...Then protect it using your favorite protectant (armor-all, formula 2000, etc..) Only you will know where the overspray was when your done.

But in a short period of time it won't matter as the "protectant" Armor-All mentioned is NOT the proper choice.

This has been discussed before, and the general concensus is that it WILL cause your dash to dry out quickly and disastrously. Armor All uses silicone oil which binds with the elastomer's in the vinyl. The silicone oil evaporates / dissipates and the elastomers go with it, leaving your vinyl dash to crumble.

Then there are the individuals who have used it religiously since the day they bought their car, and vouch for it's use. They will attest to how good it is. Well, if you STARTED using it long time ago, then continue - - don't stop, as it's the weekly or bi-weekly fix that keeps it from destroying your dash. But if your dash has NOT been subjected to the pox of all vinyl "conditioners", then DO NOT USE ARMOR ALL. Armor All ONLY works for those people who can spray it on REGULARLY AND religiously and don't mind the greasy oily feeling all over their car. If your car isn't going to be washed every 3rd weekend of the month, and isn't going to be parked in a garage then you are MUCH better off NOT using Armor All.

Use Meguiar's Vinyl products, (or POR-15's Boss Gloss). If you clean, prepare and condition your dash with their products, I can promise you that you will be much more pleased than if you use the Armor All. And if you DO intend to wash the car every 3rd weekend, then you might be able to skip the ritual of ointing your car with silicone because you won't NEED to. (Boss Gloss also does a beautiful job on leather.)

2¢ and FWIW

Enrique

[EScanlon]

As far as how to get rid of the overspray, WASH it with plain old soap and water and a brush first. You might be surprised at how much will actually wash off.

Afterwards, before you start using any solvents, you might just start with the Meguiar's cleaner, or use Wax and Grease remover. Then if any is still left on it, then start using solvents. Goof, Oops, and other of the "rag in a tube" products are good, but not always the solution to everything.

You might have to resort to using Lacquer Thinner or even stronger solvents(Acetone, M.E.K.). The trick is to be C A R E F U L and work quickly.

Start with a dash of gasoline (petrol) on a rag and, in an inconspicuous spot, see if the overspray gets dissolved before the vinyl does. (Gas should NOT melt your vinyl.) Then try something else. You may find that you can actually use Lacquer Thinner (which WILL dissolve most paints) on many surfaces, if you work quickly and carefully, OR that plain old Alcohol did the trick. (You'd be surprised at how many times Alcohol alone will dissolve paint.)

FWIW

Enrique

[montoya_fan01]

Everyone has their own "special" product that they claim works, and most of these people have one or more that they claim WONT work.

I have NEVER seen any "PROOF" that Armorall ( or any other product sold SPECIFICALLY for Automotive interior/vinyl surfaces) WONT work or is harmful.

If anyone has such PROOF ( not hearsay) from a scientific test performed by professionals, I'd certainly be interested in seeing it published by the source.

I've had good results using plain old Isopropyl Alcohol, wiped on with a clean soft cloth, and wiped off immediately after the overspray/stain is gone. I then wipe the area with water which will dilute/neutralize any residual alcohol that remains on the surface.

[zhead240]

i was informed by two zed owners who smoother their dash with vaseline when storing for winter, then wipe it off in the spring.anyone else try this?

[beandip]

This old debate about armaro-DONT goes on and on. I have tried the stuff since they first produced it in the late '60s . It leaves a oily film and it makes a mess . It makes the plastic and or rubber look good at first but after it first evaperates there is a oily film left. This film attracts dust and dirt. As to how it reacts to the surface , I leave that to others. Personally I wont use it for any thing. In fact I may have a half gallon of the stuff I will give away if you will pay the shipping, this is what I think of anmor-all. Gary

[EScanlon]

Everyone has their own "special" product that they claim works, and most of these people have one or more that they claim WONT work.

I have NEVER seen any "PROOF" that Armorall ( or any other product sold SPECIFICALLY for Automotive interior/vinyl surfaces) WONT work or is harmful.

If anyone has such PROOF ( not hearsay) from a scientific test performed by professionals, I'd certainly be interested in seeing it published by the source.

I've had good results using plain old Isopropyl Alcohol, wiped on with a clean soft cloth, and wiped off immediately after the overspray/stain is gone. I then wipe the area with water which will dilute/neutralize any residual alcohol that remains on the surface.

Emphasis mine.

Well, from the "tone" in your post, I wonder if you'll consider this as PROOF.

From Armorall.com, a link to their FAQ page. Take specific note of the third question.

http://www.armorall.com/faq/index.html

For everyone's benefit, this is what the java pop up displays:

Q: I want to make sure these products are safe on the various surfaces of my car - how can I find out for sure?

A: While our products are safe for most of your car's surfaces, it's smart to be sure before you begin using a product. Visit the individual product pages in our Product Catalog for usage instructions. You may also consult the detailed FAQ's from within each specific product group.

When you access the SPECIFIC Protectant FAQ page:

Q: Can I use Armor All® Protectant products on my dashboard; will it cause cracking?

A: Armor All Protectant products are safe to use on your car's dashboard, and will not cause cracking. In fact, Armor All Protectant products are specially formulated to guard against UV damage (like cracking and discoloration). Whether you prefer sprays or wipes, our Protectants can help keep your dashboard looking like new.

Now for the OTHER side of the story, which coincides with the Chemistry Classes I took in College.

From Meguiars.com and their On-Line forum:

http://meguiarsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=982&highlight=armor+all

Take a look at the last post on page one.

Again for everyone's benefit, here's what that last post reads:

Here's Prophecy's original questions/post...

quote:

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Originally posted by Prophecy

I was reading an article on how some Products (maybe Armor ALL) or other interior cleaners may actually cause your dash board to crack.

The way it was explained was, if the cleaning agent has too much water or silicone it will absorb into material and can sweat. Causing the dash board material to expand and crack.

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First of all, modern plastic dashes, (this includes vinyl, which is a type of plastic), are far more advanced in their chemistry than vinyl dashes 30, 20 and even 10 years ago. Just like most things, when new technology comes along to make a product better, most companies adopt it. I can’t say that I have seen too many dashes on modern cars crack.

The way older vinyl dashes were made, a Plasticizer was included in the vinyl to help make the plastic soft, elastic and flexible. Over time, and exposure to heat and direct sunlight, the plasticizers in the vinyl break down, deteriorate and the vinyl becomes hard and brittle and susceptible to cracking instead of flexing.

Some vinyl protectants in the past used a plasticizer in their formula to soften the vinyl to make it flexible, and keep it flexible. Here was the problem with that, there’s an old saying, ”Like products dissolve like products”, this was the case with the plasticizer in some protectant products, it had a tendency to dissolve and leach out the vinyl’s original plasticizers prematurely thus accelerating the deterioration process. This could lead to cracking in vinyl dashes because the vinyl became more brittle and hard.

An analogy is your finger nails. When your fingernails are hard and brittle, they will crack. After exposing them to water for an extended period of time, shower, swimming, bath, hot tub, etc. your fingernails become soft and flexible, much less prone to cracking or breaking. Because of new technology used to make plastics, plasticizers in products are no longer an issue.

Meguiar’s vinyl products contain no plasticizers.

Meguiar’s vinyl products don’t use any ingredients that are harmful to vinyl, and in fact just the opposite. Some of Meguiar’s vinyl protectants contain safe and gentle chemical cleaners to help clean the vinyl so you don’t seal and trap dirt and dust into the surface. Meguiar’s M-40 Vinyl & Rubber Cleaner/Conditioner is an example of a vinyl protectant that contains a safe chemical cleaner.

Other ingredients used in Meguiar’s vinyl products are in their to block out UV rays which fade the vinyl by breaking down the pigments used to give vinyl it’s color. Some ingredients add protection by leaving behind a coating that water proofs vinyl and prevents staining. Specialized ingredients penetrate into the vinyl and create beauty while helping to maintain flexibility. Other ingredients, such as silicones are added to create shine.

By the way, Meguiar’s uses no harmful silicones in any of the products. Silicones are inert, they have no negative effect to the surface or material they are applied to. In some formulas they ad shine, in some formulas the improve application and removal which is a benefit to the user.

quote:

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Anybody know more about this and how does Meguiar’s compare?

Maybe somebody from Meguiar’s can provide some numbers of the water % or silicone % of their products and maybe their competitors.

Thanks

Proph

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Under R&D, I am under strict restriction that will not let me share proprietary information. I am not allowed to discuss formula ingredients specifically, or formulas in general. Competitors watch Meguiar’s like hawks, always looking for ways to obtain information, or advantage. So while I’m interested in how things work, and I know all of you are interested in how things work, there is only so much information I can relate and after that, you simply must try for yourself, the product, or products in question and determine with your eyes whether or not you like the results.

In some cases, you must place your trust in a company and have faith that the ingredients in a product are the finest ingredients available, and included in a formula for a specific purpose. In the case of Meguiar’s products, the ingredients used in any particular formula are chosen because they are either beneficial to the surface, or beneficial to the procedure.

Example of beneficial to the surface: Meguiar’s trade secret conditioning oils are beneficial to the surface of paint by creating gloss, filling pores and other microscopic imperfections, as well as lubricating the surface during the application and removal process.

Example of beneficial to the procedure: Meguiar’s Nikken Finishing papers contain uniform particles of grit that leave behind a uniform sanding marks that buff out quickly, easily and evenly. So while sandpaper in one instance isn’t beneficial to the surface, it is beneficial to the procedure. Meguiar’s Nikken Finishing Papers result in a creating show car finishes while leaving behind the maximum amount of film build, not to mention reducing time, labor and expense in creating show car finishes for body shop technicians.

You must trust that if the ingredients were not beneficial to the surface, or to the procedure, then in Meguiar’s case, they would not have been included. The fact that they are present… means they are either beneficial to the surface, or to the procedure.

With that said, Meguiar’s offers the best money back guarantee in the business and backs it up! If your ever unhappy with any Meguiar’s product you can either return it to the store at which you purchased it, or call Meguiar’s Customer Care Hotline and our expert team of people will completely take care of you.

Hope this helps…

Mike

__________________

Mike Phillips

Internet Technical Specialist

1-800-854-8073 ext. 189

mphillips@meguiars.com

You are welcome to believe what you want, but the fact is that anybody that worked in a bodyshop in the 70's and 80's will be emphatic in telling you that Armor All CAUSES cracks in dashes....period.... They may have changed the formulation since then, but it looks / feels / smells the same. Since the most liability they would have, if you could "prove" their product caused it, would be, to REPLACE your bottle of Armor All, or give you a refund of your purchase price (Which you won't get if you don't have the ORIGINAL receipt with the product SKU visibly ON the receipt). I don't think you'll be seeing them too eager to re-formulate.

All in all YOU decide. Me? I've restored / refurbished / refreshed / repainted and repaired more than a few vehicles. On the ones that I was informed of the owner's preference for Armor All, all of the vinyl ALWAYS seemed to be in poor condition. Whether it was hazed (no shine), cracked, cracking, stiff, or just "greasy" the vinyl always exhibited some of these problems.

Just my prior experience and a couple of ¢

Enrique