Z - 35 Years of Nissan's Sports Car

[montoya_fan01]

And who might that be?

http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/member.php?u=1703

[daddz]

Chris,

Your comments as usual were spot on with regard to the book. I too am just about two thirds of the way through this book and the only disturbing aspect for the money spent involves some of the editing. There are a few picture captions for example on page 54 the photo depicts a blue and silver 2+2 with t-tops (available for the 2+2 beginning in 1981) and states that "this is the 1979 280ZX 2+2 version." Another photo on page 123 needs better clarification. The caption explains the low production numbers for both the Fairlday 432 and 432-R yet, the red car in the picture has later 260Z/280Z taillights, later style sail panel "Z" badges, rear repeater lenses and such.

I know I will be flamed for this but, Carl Beck is sighted as being a provider for the most accurate information with regard to Z cars? Just look through some of the threads on this website and ask yourself that question.

Getting back to the John Morton commentary, on page 37 Morton states that the "240Z was in the top three in terms of most fun to drive"; having said that I still trust most anything he would have to say with regard to Nissan products past and present.

[daddz]

bump......

[26th-Z]

Bob,

When I was doing the Vintage Z research, I kept running into this "invisible brick wall" and Beck clued me in that Evanow was writing a book. I knew Carl had been corresponding with him frequently. I was also told that Pierre was writing a book, and then, I was told that no one was writing. I found out about this book from Ron - page 24 - over dinner in Sebring a few months ago. A great deal of my information came from Ron Johnson.

The editing is not the greatest. I found a couple of typos and the captions for the pictures of the Japanese cars leave a lot to be desired. I learned three or four things about the Vintage Z program that I didn't know. For instance, I didn't realized why the body shops were such a problem. I knew they were, but Pete's explanation would not have ocurred to me. There are a couple of things I disagree with (including the VIN list of cars) giving me the impression that Pete didn't cover the subject as much as I would have liked. I was surprised to learn about how the program was handled internally and how late Pete became involved. For guys like us who have read a lot of books, looked at a lot of cars, and talked to a lot of people, this is a good coffee-book table. Perhaps very good because it is filled with very nice pictures.

However!

I will recommend this book because it generally describes the American Z car scene pretty well. Generally speaking, this is the American version if the Z car story - meaning what happened in America. The caption for the picture on page 113 is exactly what I think of the 350Z and why I like the car so much. And in my favorite color!

[jmark]

Sounds like a decent book. Morton could have picked better words for his forward however......The car is an icon. The more I drive my '71 240Z and think what was available at the time. The more I realize how significant it was. Then I go to the ARRC and watch basically stock ITS 240Z's competing against mid '90 BMW's & RX7's and still running well. The car is 35 years old!

[HS30-H]

It is an American book about the American chapters of Z car history. I suggest one not lose sight of the fact that the Z car is Japanese and that although the American history is a large portion of the success story, it is not the complete, world-wide story.

Another photo on page 123 needs better clarification. The caption explains the low production numbers for both the Fairlday 432 and 432-R yet, the red car in the picture has later 260Z/280Z taillights, later style sail panel "Z" badges, rear repeater lenses and such.

I know I will be flamed for this but, Carl Beck is sighted as being a provider for the most accurate information with regard to Z cars? Just look through some of the threads on this website and ask yourself that question.

Generally speaking, this is the American version if the Z car story - meaning what happened in America.

26th-Z and daddz,

I have this book on order with Motor Books here in London, but it seems that the publisher put the first batch destined for the UK on a slow boat. Still not sign of it yet.......

And now I'm wondering if its another dud book? I'm already feeling disappointed.

I guess I should really hold fire until I see the book myself, but things are already looking bleak judging from the comments above.

Is there no *fresh* information about the design process and engineering of the early cars? Are there no interviews with the likes of Matsuo, Yoshida, Chiba, Benitani, Kamahara, Uemura and Miyate? Any discussion about 'design concession' and the differences between the 'Export' and 'Domestic' cars?

I'm sorry, but I really CANNOT understand why in this day and age - with all the benefit of the 'carchaeology' that many people have been involved in ( with a LOT of it on forums like this ) - a fresh book hits the shelves, but brings little new information or insight to the complete story of a JAPANESE car.

Is the book as blinkered as it sounds? :disappoin

Alan T.

[jmark]

I agree. Can't believe an author can't interview the right people on both sides of the pond. I want a book that tells the complete story including worldwide racing coverage etc. Do it right or not at all......

[26th-Z]

Alan,

You should have let me send you my copy. Cancel your order! Unless you want to sit and chat with a California executive about his (myopic?) experience at Nissan USA, this is not something that is going to offer you the sort of information you seek. As far as I know, Brian Long still reigns supreme for what I can find written in English. I liked this book, however. Thanks to you mostly, I have been able to see past the issue and enjoy Evanow's work within his own context. My comment about Beck's involvement would also be favorable because the discussion about Goertz seems to have lifted right off his desk and I am glad to see it in print - finally. Albrecht came. Albrecht left. What might be his design work is reflected in another car. Matsuo (and his team...CW) designed the Z. End of conversation. Alan, you and I would have a bashing good time, but here isn't the place for it. We might be misunderstood.

In the last year, I have noticed a lot of new members, young members, come on to this site and ask the same kind of questions I did when I first came here. To them, I would recommend this for their library. It will tell them why Datsun came to America, what Katayama did when he was here, what racing successes the Z achieved, why the Datsun name changed to Nissan, why Nissan discontinued importing the 300ZX in 1996, and how Nissan revived the Z car. I will never stop recommending Brian Long's "Datsun Z" even though it has errors as well. Long is far more worldly and much less American by contrast.

Chris

[bpilati]

Chris,

Your comments as usual were spot on with regard to the book. I too am just about two thirds of the way through this book and the only disturbing aspect for the money spent involves some of the editing. There are a few picture captions for example on page 54 the photo depicts a blue and silver 2+2 with t-tops (available for the 2+2 beginning in 1981) and states that "this is the 1979 280ZX 2+2 version." Another photo on page 123 needs better clarification. The caption explains the low production numbers for both the Fairlday 432 and 432-R yet, the red car in the picture has later 260Z/280Z taillights, later style sail panel "Z" badges, rear repeater lenses and such.

I know I will be flamed for this but, Carl Beck is sighted as being a provider for the most accurate information with regard to Z cars? Just look through some of the threads on this website and ask yourself that question.

Getting back to the John Morton commentary, on page 37 Morton states that the "240Z was in the top three in terms of most fun to drive"; having said that I still trust most anything he would have to say with regard to Nissan products past and present.

I'm not going to defend Carl, he can do that, however this statement is really a kinda "throw something against the wall and see if it sticks" statements. No one is going to go through a bunch of threads. I think you could do better than this. You either say it, or you don't at all I think. My opinion only.

I was hoping this thread would kind of die.

[daddz]

Alan T,

I am still not giving up hope that maybe someone like Shin Yoshikawa will tackle this subject similar to the way his book covered the Toyota 2000GT.

Chris,

I would agree that Brian Long has done it about as well as anyone at this point although some of his picture captions are also incorrect. His book on the Toyota Celica was done a little bit better than his books on the Z series. There was more detailed information with regard to VIN#'s and such. Maybe Toyota kept better records?

BPilati,

"I'm not going to defend Carl, he can do that, however this statement are really those kinda "throw something against the wall and see if it sticks" statements. No one is going to got through a bunch of threads. I think you could do better than this. You either say it, or you don't at all I think."

That's funny because your comments towards Morton's remarks were much like that (read inflammatory). Out in the general public half to three quarters of the populace wouldn't know who John Morton is or what he contributed to a car that most of us care deeply about; if your remarks had been tempered or toned down just a bit you wouldn't currently have the notion of wanting this thread to disappear. It is good that this book be discussed in this way because as you said awhile ago that once committed to paper it is there for all time. If this were a new product like a headlight made specifically for a Z wouldn't you want opinions from both sides of the fence?

[HS30-H]

Alan,

You should have let me send you my copy. Cancel your order!

Chris,

Many thanks for your kind offer - but I've already pre-paid for it. I reckon it should be here any day now.

My comment about Beck's involvement would also be favorable because the discussion about Goertz seems to have lifted right off his desk and I am glad to see it in print - finally. Albrecht came. Albrecht left. What might be his design work is reflected in another car. Matsuo (and his team...CW) designed the Z. End of conversation.

.........I will never stop recommending Brian Long's "Datsun Z" even though it has errors as well. Long is far more worldly and much less American by contrast.

That's good about Goertz. Although mentioning Goertz at all stokes up those 'no smoke without fire' doubters again.

I was mortified to see the pages dedicated to Goertz when Brian Long's book originally came out. I still think he needs to be properly shown as the trickster that he is, and his 'rep' adjusted accordingly......

I was hoping this thread would kind of die.

You may well have created a monster........

Alan T,

I am still not giving up hope that maybe someone like Shin Yoshikawa will tackle this subject similar to the way his book covered the Toyota 2000GT.

Totally agree with you there, daddz. That book is just wonderful. Worth every penny, and a real treasure.

Chris,

I would agree that Brian Long has done it about as well as anyone at this point although some of his picture captions are also incorrect.

I agree with this too. The picture caption mistakes were a real pity, and really ought to have been put right in later editions. I notice that the MIKI PRESS book 'Fairlady Z Story' also had a lot of caption and subtitle errors. Where are the proof-readers?

bpilati,

May I say that I think we should critique these books when they come out. We should pick up on mistakes where they occur, and we should voice alternate opinions where they are valid, topical and relevant. What's wrong with that? It makes us all more rounded as individuals interested in that subject we call 'Z History', and raises the game for the next pamphlet, book, DVD or simple post on a site like this. It is one of the things that being an enthusiast is all about.

Alan T.

[1 Bravo 6]

Alan,

I have a book titled "Illustrated Encyclopedia Classic Cars" by Martin Buckley, Anness Publishing Limited, London.

It too gives credit for the design of the Zed to Albrecht Goertz. Other books I have read, by various authors, also make the same claim.

This subject has surfaced on many, many threads over time, always decrying the claim that Goertz designed the Zed.

If that is incorrect, and you or anyone else can PROVE that it is, why haven't the various authors been contacted through their publishers and given the correct information or, at least, told where to find the correct information, so that future editions of the books could be corrected.

Just wondering,

Rick.