Opinion time: How would I have fared?

[Carl Beck]

Hi KDMatt:

As previously mentioned, Air Bags are a passive restraint system - intended to protect people who are not actively wearing a properly adjusted three point lap and shoulder belt. To date there is no evidence to suggest that the Air Bag offers any greater degree of safety, than using a three point lap and shoulder belt. There is some evidence that the Air Bags when inappropriately inflated, can do serious damage to people. (many children have been killed by them).

The bumpers on the 240Z or on the 280Z would make no real difference in the end outcome of a 40 mph head on collision, as both would simply be pushed back to the engine.

Although some might not be aware of it, providing some degree of safety in a crash has been not only a design goal but public law since 1968 here in the USA. The Datsun 240-Z like all cars in 1970 had to take and pass Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards (FVMSS); one of which was a frontal impact test at 30 mph.

See: <a href=http://ZHome.com/History/240ZSafety.htm TARGET=NEW>http://ZHome.com/History/240ZSafety.htm</a>

On the one hand the 240-Z is pretty light - so you aren't carrying a lot of energy in the first place, on the other hand the uni-body is very light and doesn't offer much mass to both absorb the energy nor redirect it... Add 10mph to the above test, and the front tires would most likely be pushed farther back... but I would guess that you'd have a pretty good chance of living through it.

FWIW,

Carl B.

Carl Beck

Clearwater, FL USA

http://ZHome.com

[KDMatt]

Carl, Alfa: Thank you for the links guys.

Everyone else: your thoughts and blessings are always helpful. We're all over the initial shock now, as well as my father's grief over losing his favorite car (ya can't blame the man, he's never driven my Z).

Carl, that link was especially instrumental in helping me breathe a sigh of relief. Being as naive as I can be at times, I was completely unaware that collision tests of that magnitude were required in the 70's. Thank you.

I now feel a lot safer about driving my car, and I think I'm going to hold off on my clutch project in favor of addressing the suspension and brakes. Reading about collisions and accidents has made me realize how instrumental good handling and stopping power can be in avoiding an accident.

Your guys's input has helped me realize that while safety equipment and technology may have changed over the years, the basic formula for staying safe has always remained the same: fastening your seatbelt and being a good driver.

Peace.

[sideshowbob]

This amazes me. According to the link above, the 240z had 'crumple zones' 25 years before the advertising gimmicks. Then again, maybe it doesn't surprise me. The marketing departments have always been keen on buzzwords.

[akwikz]

I can tell you exactly how you would have faired. Several years ago I was in this exact kind of accident in a '72 240. I was going around 40mph or so and the traffic was backed up going the other direction. As I entered an intersection a kid in a brand new Hardbody P/U turned left right across my path. It happened so quickly that I literally was only able to mutter "sh" before we hit. I ran headlong into the side of the truck. Any discussion of the seat belts in a Z car is moot. They are practically useless. Mine simply came unbuckled, I slid forward actually bending the steering wheel back to the dash. My chin hit the dash, bouncing my head into the windshield. Amazingly, aside from some cuts and serious bruising, I was able to walk away from the crash. Here is the part you will be interested in. The right front wheel was pushed all the way to the footwell buckling the frame on that side. The windshield was cracked, but that was from my head. The engine seemed to take most of the impact. Surprisingly, it was not moved to far. The front of the car kind of wrapped itself around the engine. Now, you have a 280. That car would definately take the impact even better given the heavy bumpers and beefier frame. But, I was surprised at just how well the car handled it. Had I been strapped in with more functional seat belts, I would bet that the most I would have to complain about would be getting the wind knocked out of me.

Brian

[KDMatt]

I can tell you exactly how you would have faired. Several years ago I was in this exact kind of accident in a '72 240. I was going around 40mph or so and the traffic was backed up going the other direction. As I entered an intersection a kid in a brand new Hardbody P/U turned left right across my path. It happened so quickly that I literally was only able to mutter "sh" before we hit. I ran headlong into the side of the truck. Any discussion of the seat belts in a Z car is moot. They are practically useless. Mine simply came unbuckled, I slid forward actually bending the steering wheel back to the dash. My chin hit the dash, bouncing my head into the windshield. Amazingly, aside from some cuts and serious bruising, I was able to walk away from the crash. Here is the part you will be interested in. The right front wheel was pushed all the way to the footwell buckling the frame on that side. The windshield was cracked, but that was from my head. The engine seemed to take most of the impact. Surprisingly, it was not moved to far. The front of the car kind of wrapped itself around the engine. Now, you have a 280. That car would definately take the impact even better given the heavy bumpers and beefier frame. But, I was surprised at just how well the car handled it. Had I been strapped in with more functional seat belts, I would bet that the most I would have to complain about would be getting the wind knocked out of me.

Brian

Wow, what a story.

I can't help but wonder if the seatbelts were changed at some point. I mean, 72 to 76 is a lot of room for changes (especially for Nissan it seems like). I'm curious, were your belts like mine... like, were the motion-lock mechanisms (or whatever you officially term them as) so sensitive that you could scarcely pull the belts over yourself without locking them? Or are you talking about the buckling mechanism itself attached to the seat?

In either case, how big of a hassle is it to install four-point restraints?

[SteveJ]

In either case, how big of a hassle is it to install four-point restraints?

To truly install a 4 point harness correctly, you'd need a roll cage to mount it on.

[gnosez]

Here's my Z crash story:

Entering highway at 65mph, turn to see if left lane is clear (uphill climb with lots of semi's in the right lane), turn my eyes forward to see large dog, swerve left, hit patch of sand, both feet in now, Z goes sideways and then head on into guard rail, Z scrapes along rail until it hits upright, then spins around 180 degress to crush the back end. Z totaled, insurance coughs up the dough reluctantly, slight sore shoulders and neck but the 5-point harness, roll bar, and Cobra seats kept me in place and safe. A 4-point is okay but a 5-point is made so you don't submarine under the belt itself. Proper fitment is as important as wearing one in the first place.

Here's my $.02 on airbags:

1) they were made as was stated earlier as an accessory to seat belt use.

2) they are made to protect a 180 lb male who is NOT wearing a seat belt

3) they travel at speeds up to 200mph to do so (see #2 above)

4) the most common injuries from an airbag deployment are black eyes and a broken nose

If the bag deploys when your hands are at locations higher than 10 & 2, the bag will throw your hands into your face (at speeds approaching 200mph!). Now imagine someone who had both hands at the 12 position and got into a head on accident. Concussion-city.

For the reasons stated above that is why short people are very likely to be harmed by airbag deployments, as are children riding in the front seat. It is also the reason why there are now slower version available and cut-off switches. The use of pedal extensions on a single driver vehicle should be considered. Mulitiple driver cars should seek a dealer's help. Some newer models (mostly SUVs) come with adjustable pedals. This puts the driver farther from the airbag.

[jmortensen]

I'll share my 240 accident story. In my 72 I was stopped waiting to turn left into a fast food joint. I was wearing my lap belt, but I had just unhooked the shoulder harness because I couldn't reach the damn window crank with the shoulder harness on. My girlfriend (now wife) was in the passenger seat with her seatbelt on normally. I got hit by a late 90's Firebird doing ~50 mph. Her car hit mine right about where the right tail light was. The hit pushed me across the road into oncoming traffic where I hit an early 90's Acura Legend almost head on. The Acura was going ~35. So I figure I took a 50 mph hit to the rear and probably a combined 50 mph hit to the front. This hit then spun the car counterclockwise about 270º where it stopped in the middle of the street. We're talking two HARD hits. Now for the damage.

The rear of the car was pushed in about a foot and a half. The nose of the Firebird is really low, so it hit the Z under the hatch. Although the hatch was tweaked, the glass did not break. In fact, NONE of the glass in the car broke. There was no gas spilled at the scene.

In the front the car was mangled up to the radiator core support. Once there, the damage was pretty minimal. I'd guess that the core support was pushed back maybe 2 or 3 inches, and the frame rails from the firewall forward were pushed over to the left about the same amount (because the hit from the Acura was slightly off to the right side of the car).

I broke my nose on the steering wheel. I jumped out of the car and started walking towards the restaurant to get help. At this point I realized that my wife wasn't with me. I went back down to the car and had to really yank the door open. She was crying but OK. Despite being belted in, she hit her forehead on the dashboard. When I later tried to close her door, it was bent so that the door overlapped the jamb by about an inch and a half. So the chassis was seriously bent all the way up into the rocker and floorboard area.

When the cops arrived they asked what had happened and the lady said she never even saw my Z. She never even touched the brakes. The cop asked if my lights were on (it was dusk) and I said, "Look for yourself, they still are." Despite the hit and the broken tail light lens in the RR, every single BULB in the rear was still on, and the blinker was still flashing.

So I think the Z is pretty good in a crash. I don't know that I'd be too keen on testing a side impact at the same speeds, but the front and rear definitely absorb energy well.

I still can't believe that the glass didn't break! I guess I can thank the engineers for that little miracle.

[kmack]

Has anyone ever been in a wreck in their Z? What was the experience like (other than heartwrenching)...

http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1770

This accident happened over 3-1/2 years ago by another member on this board (not sure if he's still around now, though). He rolled his Z and walked away. It's a shame the pics are no longer with the thread. They clearly showed the strength of the roof in these cars. It was amazing to see how intact the roof line was after this accident.

[KDMatt]

http://www.classiczcars.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1770

This accident happened over 3-1/2 years ago by another member on this board (not sure if he's still around now, though). He rolled his Z and walked away. It's a shame the pics are no longer with the thread. They clearly showed the strength of the roof in these cars. It was amazing to see how intact the roof line was after this accident.

What a story! Holy shitake!

... Yet another testament to how resilient these cars are...

[tanny]

The Z is not a particularly safe car, especially in a side impact crash. It is very low and light, two major factors that decrease crash survivability. The safety of a Z doesn't even come close to the most recent cars. I hear a lot of "whistling past the graveyard" delusions on these threads. If you really are worried, I would recommend getting an Excursion or a Hummer. I agree with a previous thread that being alive isn't safe, so you have to decide how much you really want to worry about a future crash. Drive with as much awareness as you can muster, forget how flimsy the metal is around you, and just enjoy the ride. Glad you survived. Victor.

[1 Bravo 6]

AHAAAA,

The Return OF The DURANGO KID ??????????????????????????????

Rick.

:devious: :devious: