Wiring harness questions - early '71 240Z (long)

[Arne]

I spent some time this afternoon trying to debug the wiring mess in my early '71 240Z, and the findings aren't good. When the original fusebox melted for one of the previous owners, it took out one or more wires in one of the harnesses as well. Said wire(s) got hot enough to destroy the insulation on several other wires in the bundle as well. This is where my problem with a constant battery draw comes from, I'm sure. The farther I unwrap, the worse it gets.

So I'm looking for info on the various harness pieces, as I fully expect I'll have to replace some. Specifically the one(s) that connect to the fusebox leads with six-terminal connectors. I've got several questions:

1. There are two separate medium sized wire bundles leading to the fusebox. As far back under the dash as I can see, they remain separate. Are these really separate harnesses? Or do they merge into one somewhere back in there?
   
2. I was looking for the part number tag(s), but haven't spotted any yet. Approximately where on the harness can I expect to find the number tag(s)?
   
3. I assume that I'll need to remove the dash pad to extract and replace these harnesses, true or false?
   
4. Anyone have any data on what part numbers might be proper for the early cars?
   
5. How specific are the 240Z harnesses? My car is a Series I (build date 10/70), if I'm not worried about absolute originality, will harnesses from a late '71 or a '72 be close enough that they can be made to work reasonably? For example, could I use a '72 harness if I use the later short pigtail fusebox?
   
6. Fusebox must be replaced as well, anyone have any experience with the updated replacement that MSA sells?
   
7. Lastly, anyone have any experiences with this outfit, or any other recommendations for good harnesses? eBay user azariar, restored 240Z harness
   

[ricksaia]

Arne, I have a 71 Z build date 10/70 as you. My dash is out of the car and my wiring harness is original and good. If you need pics, let me know. Take it easy, Rick.

[Go240Zags]

I'd like to see some pics for reference, my car has a 12/70 build date. Thanks

[Arne]

Arne, I have a 71 Z build date 10/70 as you. My dash is out of the car and my wiring harness is original and good. If you need pics, let me know. Take it easy, Rick.

Yes, please Rick. Pictures will help loads. And if you can see any of the white part number labels on the wiring bundles, those numbers would be invaluable!

[Arne]

So are the pigtails to the fusebox part of the two dash harnesses? Or something different? And is the info on the part number location on the following link correct? If so, I know where to look for the part numbers. In fact the numbers listed on that page may be the right ones.

http://www.zparts.com/selectzp/dash_fs.htm

[c david]

my harnesss is for sale. vin 11546 built 10/70.

it worked well and served a power antenne, power windows, high power stereo, two extra guages, electric fuel pump, two alarm type computer "brains", updated headlamps,an msd and was push by a 94 amp alternator.

cd

[EScanlon]

Arne:

I'll give you some fast answers to your questions, but they can be elaborated on if you need.

1. Yes, they technically are two different harnesses.

2. Part numbers can usually be found closest to the connector plugs by the upper passenger kick panel. You may have to move the glove box to see them.

3. Yes.

4. This is where the "exact" part numbers are best obtained from the Club CD (microfiche) as only you can really determine that. From what you've posted, you would not need the lighting portion of the circuitry that WOULD be in a later wiring harness just for the Defrost Switch (3 wire connector in lieu of 2 wire) this points to at least ONE different connector right at the fuse box area.

=======NOTE: SHAMELESS ADVERTISING PLUG FOLLOWS============

If you haven't yet bought the club CD, then you're asking questions whose answers you'd understand better if you could see the microfiche parts relationship. The part number of the items you DO have, allow you to "date" them via the CD. You'll be able to see from how far back and how far forward in the production through the years you can swap parts from. A lot of times it will point out matched pair part numbers (this goes with that .... ONLY), it's just a simple matter of looking it up. So order the club Parts CD right away.

++++Shameless Advertising Plug Finished++++++++

5. They're not so much specific, as you CAN swap accross the years.....as long as you watch what you're introducing / removing. The simple answer here is that you can swap year to year as long as you swap ALL dependent harnesses and electrical components or instruments. So as a set, yes; individual harnesses....yes as long as you're willing to trace out connections and possibly exchange connectors in order to complete connections. Sadly the connectors did not stay constant over all the years. The last 70 I worked on was 20 years ago, but amongst the 71-72-73 years, I've been able to determine at least 3 different wiring changes significant enough not to be supported one from the other (intermittent wiper / seat belt warning and interlock / centralized relay and connection bus ). We can discuss some of these, but there were several steps from the Series I to later models.

6 & 7. Sorry I can't help you as I have no knowledge thereof.

Here's what I would do if you can do it.

Contact Danny's Datsun and find out how much he'd charge for a complete harness set all out of one car or ask him for the part numbers from your car.

The amount of time and effort to try to trace down one short may well be paid off with one easy transplant. If you have a system that's obviously corrupted (tons of wire splices, frayed connections that have been "redone", replacemed wire that goes...?), unless you have the time, you'd be dollars and time ahead to simply buy a harness from a boneyard. Then before you put that one in, clean and compare the new with the old and make notes accordingly.

FWIW

E¢

[Arne]

=======NOTE: SHAMELESS ADVERTISING PLUG FOLLOWS============

If you haven't yet bought the club CD, then you're asking questions whose answers you'd understand better if you could see the microfiche parts relationship. The part number of the items you DO have, allow you to "date" them via the CD. You'll be able to see from how far back and how far forward in the production through the years you can swap parts from. A lot of times it will point out matched pair part numbers (this goes with that .... ONLY), it's just a simple matter of looking it up. So order the club Parts CD right away.

++++Shameless Advertising Plug Finished++++++++

I wanted to buy the CD from the club, but the only payment method there is PayPal - and due to knowing a person who experienced a rather ugly identity theft problem stemming from PayPal, I no longer have a PayPal account. I guess I need to contact Mike directly on this, after all, he only lives 50 miles away from me.

[bpilati]

Paypal is not the cause of identity theft anymore than any other secure site. Of course it's your privilege, but I think maybe you were a bit hastey.

[Arne]

The amount of time and effort to try to trace down one short may well be paid off with one easy transplant. If you have a system that's obviously corrupted (tons of wire splices, frayed connections that have been "redone", replacemed wire that goes...?), unless you have the time, you'd be dollars and time ahead to simply buy a harness from a boneyard. Then before you put that one in, clean and compare the new with the old and make notes accordingly.

Well, my car is remarkably stock, and the harnesses are pretty much intact, un-modified and un-damaged, with the obvious exception of the two dash harnesses. If the fusebox hadn't suffered its oh-so-typical meltdown, I think the wiring in my car would be fine. So rather than the complete transplant, I'm going to lean towards replacing just the two dash harnesses. More research seems to indicate that most (if not all) Series I cars came with the following two harnesses in the dash - 24013-E4650 & 24013-E4651. So I think that is the direction I will proceed from here.

It does seem odd to me though, considering the following of these cars and the number of restorations in progress, that no suppliers have stepped up to reproduce wiring harnesses. The best thing I did on my old MGB restoration was to replace all the wiring with brand new replacement harnesses. Expensive, but worth it in that case. While the reliability (or lack of) of English electricals is legendary, I drove that car as my daily driver for several years after that with not a single electrical failure of any kind.

So I do know the value of having a good electrical system, but I'm reluctant to change from the current harness (with known problems) for a completely different one of unknown provenance. If brand new harnesses were available, I'd probably spring for one. But if the best I can do is used, I'll probably only get replacements for parts that I know are bad.

[Arne]

Paypal is not the cause of identity theft anymore than any other secure site. Of course it's your privilege, but I think maybe you were a bit hastey.

I will concede that PayPal may not have been the cause, but the way they handled the deal was horrible. My friend was trying to "stop the bleeding" and clean up the mess, and all PayPal could do was threaten him with bad credit reports and continued efforts to "complete" a totally bogus transaction.

I will also concede that this happened before PayPal became a division of eBay, but I'm personally still a bit gun shy. I will not attempt to disuade any one else from using the service if they are comfortable with it, my reasons for not using it myself apply only to me.

[EScanlon]

...So rather than the complete transplant, I'm going to lean towards replacing just the two dash harnesses. More research seems to indicate that most (if not all) Series I cars came with the following two harnesses in the dash - 24013-E4650 & 24013-E4651. So I think that is the direction I will proceed from here....

Excellent, you've done the hard part. Now check with Danny's Datsun or some other boneyard and see if you can get the same part numbers from one of their donor cars. One note, your car may have been built before the wiring harness was modified to accept the kick down switch that the AT requires, which differentiates the AT from the MT harnesses. However, the difference is only ONE wire, so you CAN make an AT harness from a MT harness by adding one wire. Presumably, you can invert that (AT to MT) as long as you are referring to the Dash Harnesses only.

Once you have your present harness out, you might be able to repair it, but the problem comes in in properly labeling all the wires that may need to be replaced.

As far as someone making new harnesses, I think the biggest problem is the several dozen variations that existed coupled with the fact that not everyone is willing to spend $200 for a dash harness, or .... It seems that as important as this component is, everybody feels that it should sell cheaply, yet it's one of the harder parts to replicate due to the investment in materials required, which in turn makes it expensive.

As far as the CD, go to your local USPS, buy a money order which you can charge to your Debit Card (No Credit Cards, AmEx OK) send Mike the money and get your Microfiche CD. Believe me, once you get into the "books" you'll find a BUNCH of information. Now the kicker? Sometimes these parts are available directly from the dealer.....if you know the part numbers. Don't waste your time or the parts department's salesperson, half of them will tell you that without a part number they won't check it in their system.

Enrique