L-series Engine

[sakijo]

I know this is a little off centre to the subject, but with regard to the origins of the NISSAN "L" series, If I've read them correctly the various net sources I've read suggest the development of the L series (both 6 cylinder and 4 cylinder versions) was well under way within NISSAN before the merger with PRINCE Motors. What muddies the waters for me is references to Princes G7 OHC 2L six being the inspiration for the L series, and in turn, the Mercedes-Benz OHC inline 6 of the same era being the inspiration for the Prince G7. The Merc motor has its intake/exhaust on the other side of the head, but it certainly has its similarities. Those here familiar with the Prince Gloria S40 series may know of a story about Mercedes-Benz sueing Prince Motors over patent copyright for the anti-dive front suspension used in the S40? I don't know if this is fact or fiction, but over the years a few Japanese vehicle enthusiasts I've spoken with had heard or read of the same stories. A tenuous connection for sure..., but it would be interesting to know if these similarities in design were via licensing agreement of some sort or were simply a combination of "inspiration" and economic pragmatism?

Decided to start a new thread on the L-series engine. From what I've read on another forum, the L-series engine was developed by Nissan and was continually refined and upgraded, ending with the L-28. The G8 (S-20) engine was developed by Prince and this engine eventually gave birth to the RB series engines found in later Skylines. Any thoughts?

[John Coffey]

Start your research at Carl's site: http://www.zhome.com

[Victor Laury]

Ya know, I've read Carl's history pages, and although I agree with the importance of PMC's contribution to design and production, but, in my opinion, Carl discredits the capabilities and accomplishments of the pre-merger Nissan. The graphic he created brings this point home, where he illustrates all the pre merger efforts going into a "Nissan Trash Can"

Yes, I too love the Z, but I'm not about to call everthing else trash.

[HS30-H]

Start your research at Carl's site: http://www.zhome.com

John,

I don't see any accurate information / history on Nissan's L-series engine on zhome.com.....

Can you tell me whereabouts on the site it is located?

Ya know, I've read Carl's history pages, and although I agree with the importance of PMC's contribution to design and production, but, in my opinion, Carl discredits the capabilities and accomplishments of the pre-merger Nissan. The graphic he created brings this point home, where he illustrates all the pre merger efforts going into a "Nissan Trash Can"

Yes, I too love the Z, but I'm not about to call everthing else trash.

I agree wholeheartedly, Victor.

The whole thing smacks of received prejudice.

[ZSaint]

I agree with is post. I have worked on American-made late 60's to early 70's Mopars. I have also worked on Datsuns. I have done restorations on both marques. I cannot believe the difference between a Datsun and a Plymouth or Dodge in the same era. Datsun has so many engineering advantages over the USA-made vehicles. For instance, the E-brake assembly. Datsun worked very hard to make certain this E-brake did not rattle, transfer vibration, or wear out. They used a nylon bushing on the handle fulcrum to keep it from being noisey. Chrysler just used metal on metal. I could not believe the modern techniques used by the Datsun engineers. It took Chrysler a long time to catch up. They are still catching up to the Japanese! I do not believe these designs came form "Prince" people. I think they were Nissan people. Maybe they did not have the engine capabilities but they knew how to build cars!

[John Coffey]

I just listed Carl's site as a place to start.

[pimp1911]

I did this yesterday. A nice family tree for easy viewing. Still have some holes to fill. Looks like subaru is a distant cousin.

[sakijo]

I did this yesterday. A nice family tree for easy viewing. Still have some holes to fill. Looks like subaru is a distant cousin.

Interestingly enough, Nissan and Subaru shared many components and technologies - the R160/180/200 differenntial being one of them.

[Victor Laury]

Interestingly enough, Nissan and Subaru shared many components and technologies - the R160/180/200 differenntial being one of them.

The "R" diffs are a Fuji Heavy Indus. product. Nissan bought components from many sources.

[KGC210]

You will find that with most Jap cars. Same make of heater motor, lights, air box (my Skyline shares the air box with some old Scoobys) diffs, calipers etc.

I think what differes between Jap and non Jap cars is that in Japan they prefer to reuse a part from another company / shared instead of each producing their own version but slightly crapper as they can pool together and make a decent one in the first place.

But with English cars etc they always produce their own parts, but thats why I think English etc cars are not very good quality as they have to spend part of the budget remaking parts and tooling, when there could be another part already made for use.

Just my idea.

Also bit of info on Lights to show they use the same company.

My C210 Skyline uses Koito front and IKI rear lights

My AE86 uses Koito fron and I cant remember the rear.

But the AE86, S13 and some Rx7's all use the same size pop up front lights but dont know if they are the same make though.

Also a quick little Table (not a full list, just a quick search)

Make.........Used by

IKI............Nissan, Isuzu,

Koito.........Nissan, Toyota, Mazda, Suzuki

Stanley......Nissan, Honda, Mitsubishi, Suzuki

Also If I remember right my mates Scooby has got a alternator or starter (can't remember wich) made my Mitsubishi, but the lecy side of Mitsubishi.

Right I will shut up now as this has gone way off topic about L Engines.

[ZSaint]

This is the number one reason that GM is losing ground. They used to have a heater motor, interior mirror, radiator, etc designed for every model they built. Instead of using a supplier that has an existing part, they paid an engineer, designer, graphics and fabricator to develop a new part. They had so much money for so many years they got away with it. With competition now, they no longer can do whatever they want. They have huge production costs that they must get rid of to be competitive. Using common parts is one type of savings they have finally discovered. The Japanese discovered this phenomenon years ago!

[sakijo]

You will find that with most Jap cars. Same make of heater motor, lights, air box (my Skyline shares the air box with some old Scoobys) diffs, calipers etc..

Yes. They bought from component suppliers rather than make their own. It diversified the economy (more companies, more production, less risk).

Also bit of info on Lights to show they use the same company.

My C210 Skyline uses Koito front and IKI rear lights

My AE86 uses Koito fron and I cant remember the rear.

But the AE86, S13 and some Rx7's all use the same size pop up front lights but dont know if they are the same make though.

Also a quick little Table (not a full list, just a quick search)

Make.........Used by

IKI............Nissan, Isuzu,

Koito.........Nissan, Toyota, Mazda, Suzuki

Stanley......Nissan, Honda, Mitsubishi, Suzuki.

Light bulb manufacturers in Japan are the same as those in America - they supply the major manufacturers with "standard" bulbs. In America, these were GE, Sylvania, and Westinghouse.

Also If I remember right my mates Scooby has got a alternator or starter (can't remember wich) made my Mitsubishi, but the lecy side of Mitsubishi.

Again, major manufacturers of alternators in Japan are Hitachi, Mitsubishi and Koito.