Barrett Jackson Auction, Scottsdale

[lonetreesteve]

I think some of the "Nissan 240z Restorations" have been sold in the $30k-plus neighborhood, but I don't know if any of these cars have ever been on the auction block at Barrett-Jacksons. After seeing what a lot of those cars went for in Scottsdale the past few days, I would say that 240Zs are quite a bargain and will do nothing but go up in value.

[Ron Carter]

montoya fan, I am sure that Gerry Mason's BRE Z race car would fetch 6 digits if he were to sell....

If a Chevelle can get 1.1Million your Z is on its way to bigger $$$'s.

[Carl Beck]

Hi Gang:

The highest quality Datsun 240-Z's are not taken to the auctions yet. They sell privately, and if they are true #1 or #2 examples, they sell quickly. This past 12 months I have personally seen several #1 and #2 240-Z's sell for well over $25K. (as in most cases I've put buyers together with seller's).

Let's not kid ourselves however, true #1 or #2 examples are few and far between. They also command prices that are two to three times the price of a solid #3 car.

In 1965 I purchased a 1955 Ford Thurderbird. I was in California then, and like the Datsun 240-Z's most of the 55/57 T-Birds were originally sold in California. So they were plentiful then. I looked at about 20 of them, before I bought mine.

It was Red.. had 31K original miles and I purchased it from the Original Owner for $1,500.00. From 65 to 70 I drove it all over the Country... put an additional 90K miles on it. I had purchased a 67 911-S in 68 and started to drive that more, as the old T-Bird was starting to wear out. So I parked the T-Bird, drove the Porsche... and in 1970 I bought my first 240-Z.

After a few months of driving the Z - I sold the 911.... and the T-Brid sat in the garage for another year or two... It was very presentable, still had shiny paint, still ran fine... but every time I took it out for spin, something else would break, or wear out...

In late 71 as I recall, I sold that T-Bird for $1,800.00. That was about the average price for one with that mileage and in that condition. All during the 70's and 80's the 55/57 T-Birds appreciated very gradually, but very little. By the mid 80's the T-Bird that I sold for $1,800.00 was resold for $5,500.00.

The little Birds stayed around $5K to $7K for a few years longer, then it seemed that overnight they jumped to the $12K to $14K range... that was the late 80's as I recall. By the mid 90's you had very hard time finding a 55/57 T-Bird in any kind of condition for less than $20K... by the end of the 90's they were pushing $30K.... The last fully restored 55 that I saw sold, went for something close to $45K a couple years ago.

Of course if you had the extremely rare Super-Charged 57 "F" Bird... now you have a $150K car.

All this to point out - that our Datsun 240-Z's are following about the same path....

Yes, but you might say..."There were about 150,000 Datsun 240-Z's sold in the US... but only about 53,000 small T-Birds. That's true.. but the market in 55/57 was also less than 1/3 the size. So the buyers that wanted a small T-Brid when they were young, and who are paying the price for one today is actually less than a 1/3 of the size of the market that will want a Datsun 240-Z as they age and can then afford the Z they always wanted.

In terms of "limited production" vehicles.. the DATSUN 240-Z is VERY LIMITED in numbers in the US Market. Mid-year Corvettes 63-67 = 72,418.. and you see what they are bringing today... and they didn't rust out!! 67-69 Camero's...725,942 (1969 alone: Z-28's = 19,014, V8's = 178,087 and 6cyl. =65,008) ... and we see what the early Camero's are bringing now....

Truly nice 240-Z's are now in the $7K to $10K range... #2 240-Z's are now in the $16K to $21K range.. In another five to ten years, most of the existing 240-Z's will either be beaters that have hit the junk yards.. or fully restored examples... In ten years you won't find many 240-Z's for less than $40K.

Now I wish I had just kept both the 55 T-Bird and that 67 911-S...

FWIW,

Carl B.

Carl Beck

Clearwater, FL USA

http://ZHome.com

[montoya_fan01]

montoya fan, I am sure that Gerry Mason's BRE Z race car would fetch 6 digits if he were to sell....

If a Chevelle can get 1.1Million your Z is on its way to bigger $$$'s.

you're entitled to your estimation, certainly. as am I entitled to mine.

[Ron Carter]

you're entitled to your estimation, certainly. as am I entitled to mine.

Yeah, I agree...but the valuation of these cars is related to what someone will pay for one. You think I am out of line according to your response?

There are guys out there that see collector cars as an investment and bring millions of dollars to Barrett Jackson events (and others) to purchase an item that they can drive occasionally park most of the time and sell in 10 years for 3X to 10X the purchase price. As the price to restore these vehicles go up the valuation goes up as well. What do you think it would cost to do a full restoration on a 240Z like what Nissan attempted a few years ago? I can tell you that today it would cost you $35K to $40K, so a $50K Z car is not out of the realm of reality at some point in the near future.

These cars are becoming rolling art...hang a Monet on your wall and sell it in 10 years for several hundred grand more than you paid for it. It's a solid investment that is liquid and you can almost bank on a 100%+ return of investment.

As Carl mentioned there are some indicators, and I will as well...As the price for muscle cars goes through the roof, the only "affordable" cars from that time frame will be japanese sports cars, and they will start going up in value as demand increases and the number of true #1 and #2 cars available deminishes.

Currently 2 door 510's are going up in price in leaps and bounds. So are 1200's and Roadsters. Buy a 67.5 two liter roadster there were only 1000 ever made. What are they worth?

What ever some one is willing to pay.

R

[zman525]

hey wat about us 280z guys :-P

[Ron Carter]

The same applies to the 280Z's on up as well. Although not as sought after, a 280 in #1 or #2 condition will bring a a hefty number as well at some point. Example would be the 383 challenger's at Barrett Jackson. Not as desirable as a Hemi car, but still brought big numbers.

[John Coffey]

There's kind of a chicken-or-egg thing regarding vehicle valuations and restorations. By far the most expensive aspect of a restoration is labor and most restorations require 500 to 1,000 hours (or more) of work to get the car (any car) to a #1 or #2 level. At $60 an hour you're looking at $30,000 to $60,000 just in labor if you have a shop do the work for you.

Most rational car collectors will look at those number and figure that spending their resoration dollars on a Z28 Camaro that can sell for over $100K is a better investment then Datsun 240Z that might sell for the price of the restoration. Irrational car collectors will restore the 240Z for the love of the car, cost be damned.

A perfect example for us to watch next year at BJ are Amphicars. One sold at BJ for $110,000! That's over double the price of the previous Amphicar sales record. Next year I bet we'll see a dozen Amphicars cross the block because people figure they can make a profit on the $60,000 is costs to restore one of these little turds. And every one of those will sell for $60,000 or less.

[zman525]

i cant handle watching that show it drives me nuts... i want every single one of those cars and it drives me nuts hahaha

[jmark]

Yeah, I agree...but the valuation of these cars is related to what someone will pay for one. You think I am out of line according to your response?

There are guys out there that see collector cars as an investment and bring millions of dollars to Barrett Jackson events (and others) to purchase an item that they can drive occasionally park most of the time and sell in 10 years for 3X to 10X the purchase price. As the price to restore these vehicles go up the valuation goes up as well. What do you think it would cost to do a full restoration on a 240Z like what Nissan attempted a few years ago? I can tell you that today it would cost you $35K to $40K, so a $50K Z car is not out of the realm of reality at some point in the near future.

These cars are becoming rolling art...hang a Monet on your wall and sell it in 10 years for several hundred grand more than you paid for it. It's a solid investment that is liquid and you can almost bank on a 100%+ return of investment.

As Carl mentioned there are some indicators, and I will as well...As the price for muscle cars goes through the roof, the only "affordable" cars from that time frame will be japanese sports cars, and they will start going up in value as demand increases and the number of true #1 and #2 cars available deminishes.

Currently 2 door 510's are going up in price in leaps and bounds. So are 1200's and Roadsters. Buy a 67.5 two liter roadster there were only 1000 ever made. What are they worth?

What ever some one is willing to pay.

R

The Hagerty Newsletter agrees. It has a blurb on the 240Z & 280Z.

[montoya_fan01]

You think I am out of line according to your response?

Nope, I just have a different opinion. Nothing more than that.

[Ron Carter]

Nope, I just have a different opinion. Nothing more than that.

fair enough...We all have opinions.

John, I think you have a good point too. I think that we can look to popular sportcars & hotrods and figure that they will bring good money at auction. A proper restoration, or restorod will do well it seems. An amphibicar, strong following amongst a very small group of people, probably not....I agree we will see a bunch of them next year and they will not do as well.