L 24 engine

[HS30-H]

No sir, you did not directly mention "the U.S. export/240z model" in your reply, however you indirectly implied that by wrapping the quote box around montoya_fan01's entire response.

What you thought I was implying is up to you. I already told you that I was replying directly to the "99.9999997% sure its aftermarket" quote, and my post reflected that fact. The inference is clear when you look at the scan I posted: A Factory-fitted option for the L-series six engines in the S30-series Z body DID EXIST.

Who supplied the illustration? Who's doing the misleading?

You think I would post an illustration with the express purpose of misleading? I resent that accusation, and I think you ought to retract it. It is QUITE CLEAR that you have completely misunderstood what the scan illustrates, and what model of car / engine the parts were designed to apply to. See below:

Huh? What does that have to do with this thread? We happened to be discussing a U.S. model. How is that ignoring the others? If you choose to start a thread about the JDM models and not mention any others (which you have) then are you not doing the exact same thing?

"JDM models"? It is quite clear that you completely misunderstood the illustration and the part numbers that were part of the file's name. Go back and have another look ( again ).

And to make this perfectly clear:

If you choose to start a thread about the JDM models and not mention any others (which you have) then are you not doing the exact same thing?

The scanned page I posted came from the Nissan ( Factory ) 'R-Drive' parts manual for the RHD Export market '240Z' and '260Z' models. You might like to note that this manual does NOT include any "JDM" model information, and specifically does NOT include any information on the S20 engine and its oil cooler kit. It seems quite clear to me that you assumed that the scan related to the "JDM" market models, and the S20 engine in particular. You were wrong.

The bottom line is this: NY " Z " originally asked if the oil cooler mounted on his 1972 240Z was a factory option. No it was not and nobody has proven differently.

You're doing it again. There WAS a Factory Oil Cooler kit option ( in the EXPORT market ) for the L-series sixes. Just because it was never 'officially' offered on the HLS30U model doesn't mean that the parts might not show up on a particular car. Close your mind to the information that a Factory oil cooler kit DID EXIST and you will NOT have the whole truth at hand. The Factory kit for the L-series sixes was made from early 1970, and was first made available through the 'Sports Option' lists. It could have shown up NEW on a 1972 production car, or at ANY time subsequently as a retro fit.

And until NY " Z " posts a picture of the system that's on his car, there is nothing incorrect in montoya_fan01's statements, including "99.9999997% sure it's aftermarket".

Sure. It might be pure "aftermarket". But I wonder if my definition of 'aftermarket' is the same as yours? I wonder if you would call an 'Interpart'-supplied item 'aftermarket'? For sure an item from 'Cal Custom' would be 'aftermarket' - but how about 'Datsun Competition - USA'? Would you class that as the 'aftermarket'? Look at the part number that forms part of the file name in that scan I posted. Same as the 'Datsun Competition' kit. The Factory parts manual page scan is relevant, on topic, possibly helpful to the person who posted the question ( whether his kit is the same or different ) and - at least I think - worthy of being added to the debate. You might also like to note that I was the FIRST person to post hard data on the thread instead of conjecture and guesses.

Member 'NY "Z"' may well have a pure 'aftermarket' ( ie - non-Factory ) kit on his car. In which case montoya_fan01 might be right with his "99.9999997%" comment. But nevertheless, a Factory-fitted and specifiable option kit DID EXIST for the Export cars, and I have shown this to be the case. There is therefore - implicitly - the possibility that one of these could have ended up on an HLS30U.

And let me make one thing clear to you. Something that I want you to take on board and remember: It was possible to buy an HLS30U as a NEW CAR in Japan right from the beginning of production. Any foreign national could do this by approaching the 'Diplomatic Sales Division' in Ginza, Tokyo and laying down the money required. This car could be registered in Japan and driven on the public highway, or exported to the territory of the buyer's choice. Such cars COULD ( and DID ) have the choice of adding ANY Factory option that would work on the model and type. Such cases DID exist, and there are known examples to back it up. Some of them even ended up being taken to the USA. How can anybody say for sure that member 'NY "Z"'s car is not one of these?

Therefore, closing your eyes to the options and specifications NOT initially offered to the HLS30U model in its particular export market - but available on others - will lead you to an incomplete conclusion.

Instead of chastising me for my "agenda", you might like to pay a thought to chastising those who actively seek to keep the whole truth from you, or who themselves hide from the complete story of this family of cars because they are convinced that some of the story is "irrelevant". Think about it.

I wonder if Alan likes "Crow Pie"?

I don't know. I have never tasted it yet. Perhaps you can tell me, as you appear to have black feathers in your teeth.

Alan T.

[moonpup]

WOW... Are you a barrister? It's amazing how you can twist things!

What I originally responded to was your penchant for jumping in to correct someone under the guise of "educating" them. Where's the education in: "Well, Here's a toast to the 00.0000003%......... "

I don't even know where to begin with regard to your latest response and you know what, I don't think I will.

Good luck with your "Education(of the american public)Agenda"

[sblake01]

Moonpup, the reason you don't know where to begin is becacuse there's nothing for you to say. You throw these little bits and pieces of yours into a thread, and I'm not just talking about this one, maybe you just need to listen a little more or perhaps a lot more.

[HS30-H]

WOW... Are you a barrister? It's amazing how you can twist things!

What did I twist? You haven't answered any of the points I made. You MISREAD the information offered in the post I made ( the scan and the part number ) and you also MISUNDERSTOOD my intention. You then went on to attack me for posting on the thread, accusing me of having an "agenda" - when you obviously had an agenda of your own.

What I originally responded to was your penchant for jumping in to correct someone under the guise of "educating" them. Where's the education in: "Well, Here's a toast to the 00.0000003%......... "

The "education" ( and thank you for casting the aspersion ) would be - again I point it out to you - in the RELEVANT and CORRECT information contained in the file attachment.

You honestly think my "Here's a toast...." reply to the quoted figure of "00.9999997%" was in some way disrespectful? I don't think you understood it anyway. You want to censor me for making a flip retort to a stupid number ( which was quite obviously not serious )? I think I replied in a fitting manner, and a manner that showed I was ready to take the debate further. You think I have NO RIGHT to do that?

I don't even know where to begin with regard to your latest response and you know what, I don't think I will.

That will save you the trouble of explaining how you managed to misunderstand my post and the information it contained, and the answers I gave in 'defence' of your ridiculous attack ( which was off topic anyway ).

Good luck with your "Education(of the american public)Agenda"

Is that a final insult for good measure? I notice you use this like it is a quote from me, when they are your words and your words alone.

If I had such an agenda ( and incidentally - I don't think I do ) you would have to admit that I'd have my work cut out, wouldn't I? Especially with people that don't WANT to know the whole story about these cars. That would appear to include you. I noticed you all but told me that we shouldn't discuss the Air Con issues in another thread because a definitive conclusion could not be reached. In that case we might as well start turning the lights out......

For what its worth, I spend a fair amount of time on the forum of a UK-based Z owners club, and ( yes - you guessed it ) I seem to spend a lot of time bringing to people's attention the fact that the S30-series Z cars were / are a whole family of models, and that they were sold all over the world. This normally entails bringing to attention things that some of the UK-based forum members there do not want to hear. So am I anti-British too?

I also belong to a Japanese club for the S30-series Z cars ( that means a club based, yes in Japan ) and travel there quite often - sometimes finding myself being asked about the UK-market versions and their parts / variations. Funnily enough, they seem pretty open to the idea that the S30-series Z was a 'family' of models. How refreshing.

I have a pretty big archive of data to back me up, and I think ( I believe this is true ) some of what I have posted / talked about has been useful and has been appreciated. I'd be pleased if it was sometimes entertaining too, but I don't expect everybody to understand my writing style or my particular brand of humour.

You might also notice ( if you pay attention ) that if I don't know about something I tend to keep my fingers away from the keyboard, watch, read and ( hopefully ) LEARN.

As I mentioned in a previous post on this thread - if you don't like what I write or how I write it, then you have some options open to you. Bit I'm not going away just because 'moonpup' wants me to.

Alan T.

[montoya_fan01]

Alan, my first post INTENTIONALLY left room for the POSSIBILITY of a factory option destined for another market (or a car from another market) to be the subject of this thread. Hense the 99.9999997% statement. You may disagree with the percentage that I posted, but I think it's fairly obvious that no one, not even you, could not be that precise. It was MY brand of humor that perhaps you didn't catch.

How many cars do you think could have possibly entered the USA with this part in place and survived until 2006? How many 240Z were imported or sold in the US without this part in place?

I stand by my statement.

It's nice to know the info that you provided, however I fail to see where a correction to my EXACT statement was warranted or necessary. The odds are SLIM that the option you describe is in fact installed on this car.

IMO it's fairly obvious that the discussion was about a car in the USA and I fail to see why the discussion needs to include a correction to my post regarding something offered outside of that specific market until/unless pictures or other documentation are provided.

[moonpup]

Oh believe me Stephen I have plenty to say but I've seen how "discussions" with certain individuals go and I've choosen not to continue this one as I believe I've made the point that I intended to make.

Now as far as throwing "bits and pieces" into threads, isn't that what a forum is all about? Thanks for you opinon, I heard it quite clearly.

[HS30-H]

You may disagree with the percentage that I posted, but I think it's fairly obvious that no one, not even you, could not be that precise. It was MY brand of humor that perhaps you didn't catch.

On the contrary. I think I understood the intention, AND the tongue-in-cheek nature of the figure. My post was equally tongue-in-cheek. Nobody can offer figures such as those and be serious about them, surely?

How many cars do you think could have possibly entered the USA with this part in place and survived until 2006? How many 240Z were imported or sold in the US without this part in place?

ACTUAL numbers are neither here nor there. There only needs to be ONE, and this car could be IT. The point is that the parts DID EXIST first as a Factory Option for domestic models, then as an option for non-USA market models and ALSO as a Datsun Competition-supplied part in the USA market.

You would do well to remember my point about HLS30U models being sold NEW in Japan, and it being possible for them to be fitted with many of the non-HLS30U Factory and Sport Option parts. One of these could well turn up one day. Never say never....... Once you know that the parts EXISTED, everything else follows.

The odds are SLIM that the option you describe is in fact installed on this car.

Yes, and I don't dispute that. On the other hand, it seems that others would prefer to deny their very existence.

.....and I fail to see why the discussion needs to include a correction to my post regarding something offered outside of that specific market until/unless pictures or other documentation are provided.

You don't seem to get it. I say again - I wasn't "correcting" you - I was letting the parts speak for themselves. Then I got attacked for posting parts that were 'not applicable' to the Nissan L-series 6 engine - when they WERE! I notice both yourself and 'moonpup' have studiously avoided my answers to those accusations. That's a poor show......

As for your "Crow Pie": response, of course you haven't tasted it. You are perfect, it's the rest of us that need constant chastisement from you.

Insult on top of insult. If you really think that I think I'm perfect, then you are well wide of the mark. Some of the people who frequent this site have actually met me, or dealt with me outside the forum environment. You might like to ask them for their opinion on who and what I think I am. I'm certainly no saint, and I don't suffer fools gladly, but I don't think I'm always right. That's in your head.

As I stated above, you have COMPLETELY avoided retracting ( or apologising ) for your mistaken accusations about what that scan illustrated. Where have the pair of you acknowledged that the scan illustrated PRECISELY what you said it DID NOT ( ie - a Factory Option oil cooler kit for some of the 'Export' market 240Z / 260Z models )? You really ought to admit that you were wrong and apologise for your "crow pie" comment.

.....and I've choosen not to continue this one as I believe I've made the point that I intended to make.

Which was obviously nothing to do with the thread topic. In short - you had an agenda didn't you? Why didn't you start a new thread?

Now as far as throwing "bits and pieces" into threads, isn't that what a forum is all about?

Well now, I think we can agree on that. How ironic that you should drop this onto the end of a thread where you've been telling me that this is precisely what I shouldn't be doing.

Er, 'NY "Z" ' - apologies for the continental drift over the last page and a half. There was some relevant and useful data posted up around the top half of page one, and I suggest that you might like to focus on that area of the thread rather than the somewhat ugly stuff that followed. :tapemouth

Pictures, perhaps?

Alan T.

[montoya_fan01]

You don't seem to get it. I say again - I wasn't "correcting" you - I was letting the parts speak for themselves. Then I got attacked for posting parts that were 'not applicable' to the Nissan L-series 6 engine - when they WERE! I notice both yourself and 'moonpup' have studiously avoided my answers to those accusations. That's a poor show......

Your post certainly came off that way. If you want to add something to a thread without appearing to correct someone, perhaps it would be best to not quote others in your post.

I did not attack your data or dispute the info posted. I do however dispute that the info you provided has ANYTHING to do with my answer regarding L24's imported to the US by Nissan.

As I stated above, you have COMPLETELY avoided retracting ( or apologising ) for your mistaken accusations about what that scan illustrated. Where have the pair of you acknowledged that the scan illustrated PRECISELY what you said it DID NOT ( ie - a Factory Option oil cooler kit for some of the 'Export' market 240Z / 260Z models )? You really ought to admit that you were wrong and apologise for your "crow pie" comment.

Alan T.

I have nothing to retract or apologize for (except perhaps the "crow" comment), but I choose not to apologize for that, since you haven't apologized for correcting me.

My initial post stated:

No such animal as a "factory" oil cooler on an L24 (never seen one on an L26 or L28 either) imported to the USA by Nissan.

and I don't see that any of your info successfully refutes that. Sure a serviceman could have imported an S30 from another market, or someone else could have imported one, or someone could have sourced a part elsewhere and installed it here in the US. No doubt about that, but it would not have been an official Nissan factory (I know you love that word) import, which is what I was refering to.

Also, If you read back you'll note that I didn't even comment on your scan, or what it illustrated. I made NO accusations about the info or scan.

I stand by my statement that there was NO oil cooler supplied on L24's imported to the USA by Nissan.

[sakijo]

STOP ! ! ! ! no more flames. You are probably both correct.

montoyafan_01 "NO oil cooler supplied on L24's imported to the USA by Nissan" Yes. Probably true.

HS30-H "The point is that the parts DID EXIST first as a Factory Option for domestic models, then as an option for non-USA market models and ALSO as a Datsun Competition-supplied part in the USA market." Yes probably true.

The possibility of this part being installed on a USA car as a factory part bought through a Nissan/Datsun dealer is there. Was it? At this point, we don't know. And until we see pictures we will never know. Healthy discussion is good; flames are not. I don't want to see this board go the way of others - - - down in flames. There's a lot of good people and knowledge out there, and I'd hate to see it go away because of flames.

my 2 cents.

[HS30-H]

I did not attack your data or dispute the info posted.

Then how come you were thanking 'moonpup' after his personal attack on me? That's where you posted the "eat crow" comment. Looked like you were agreeing to his assertion that the pic I showed did not illustrate anything related to the L24/L26 engine - when it DID. Look at that from my point of view.

I do however dispute that the info you provided has ANYTHING to do with my answer regarding L24's imported to the US by Nissan.

And I keep telling you both that this is NOT what I was disputing. I have the Factory parts catalogs for the HLS30U and I can see that the oil cooler kit is not in there. I'm not so sloppy as to make a post without checking. I was commenting on your "aftermarket" post ( don't you understand that? ) by pointing out that such an oil cooler kit DID exist for Export cars. The problem then became that 'moonpup' mistook the picture for a non L-series "JDM" part ( he obviously thought it was for an S20....... ) and decided to hang me on that hook.

I have nothing to retract or apologize for (except perhaps the "crow" comment), but I choose not to apologize for that, since you haven't apologized for correcting me.

Once again - if I was "correcting" anything ( and strictly speaking I wasn't ), it was the "aftermarket" comment. I merely wanted to illustrate a Factory fitment, and the part number corresponded with that of the Datsun Competition part too ( I have the catalogs ). I categorically DID NOT dispute the fact that these were not 'official' options on USA market cars.

Also, If you read back you'll note that I didn't even comment on your scan, or what it illustrated. I made NO accusations about the info or scan.

As I've already pointed out, you thanked somebody who DID. Then you threw the "eat crow" comment in for good measure.

I stand by my statement that there was NO oil cooler supplied on L24's imported to the USA by Nissan.

And you'd be right ( obviously ) - but I wasn't disputing that, was I?! I think the fact that a Factory option for such a part DID exist was relevant to the thread in its original context. Where has anyone else brought that fact up? If you don't agree then don't agree, but I reckon - taken at face value - the picture held interesting data that could be used by the member who asked the initial question, even if it was simply to confirm that HIS is in fact nothing like the illustration, and is more likely an 'aftermarket' part.

I still think my post was constructive in that sense, and I stand by it. All the finger-pointing about my "agenda" is just opportunistic propaganda in the wrong place, at the wrong time.

Alan T.

[Unkle]

DATSUN GEEKS ! Do you all wear pocket protectors too ?

You guys sound / read like the characters on '' Napoleon Dynamite '' !

[beandip]

Moon Now as far as throwing "bits and pieces" into threads, isn't that what a forum is all about? Thanks for you opinon, I heard it quite clearly.

There is nothing wrong with adding '' bits and pieces '' as long as they are factual . There is no room for agendas here , and it seemed clear from the beginnig that you have an axe to grind. Toward Alan T . Alan thanks for the information on the oil cooler . I had thought it might have been from a turbo ZX . my 2 ¢ Gary