Top 10 Japanese race cars of all time As per Classic Motorsport

[HS30-H]

You misunderstand my post.

Debating a VERY SUBJECTIVE list is pointless IMO. NO ONE will be right or wrong.

Well, I understand subjectivity ( and the fact that subjectivity itself is subjective ) - but I'm trying to be objective for the sake of stimulating and maintaining an interesting debate. What harm?

I think some of the cars in the list are really quite bizarre - given the list's title. THAT is worth talking about in my opinion.

If you don't wish to present the facts, that is fine. Someone else will, or not.

You could well be right there........

OK - here are some facts. But I want to make it quite clear that in the case of the 300ZX GTP car I was commenting on this part of the quote:

".....Nissan beats Porsche at their own game."

...which I thought was an interesting statement. Almost as though Nissan had never beaten Porsche at their own game - which I take to be Endurance racing? - before. "One Hit Wonder" or not - a Factory Nissan had beaten a Factory Porsche in endurance racing 20 years before the 300ZX GTP.

The 300ZX GTP class championship was a great achievement - I don't dispute it, and it certainly belongs on a top ten list, but when the "beating Porsche" quote comes into it I think it changes the point.

I wonder whether the journalists who put together the list actually knew about the result of the 1969 'Japan Grand Prix' race at Fuji Speedway, where Kurosawa and Sunako led home Kitano and Yokoyama - both pairings in Nissan R382s - with the Porsche 917 of Jo Siffert and David Piper coming home in 6th. I read an interview with Siffert where he mentioned that they thought the Nissans and Toyotas would be "easy meat" - but was evidently surprised that the pace of the Nissans had made himself and Piper push so hard that they made a few mistakes.

Race footage is available on video, and makes very interesting viewing. Nissan certainly made good use of it in their domestic advertising.....

Alan T.

[Carl Beck]

I think you might be getting it confused with another publication? Their website shows that it is published in your back yard - Florida, USA:

Hi Alan//Ron (everyone)

Yes - it looks like both Classic Motorsport and Grass Roots Motorsports are both now owned by Motorsport Marketing Inc. - Headquartered in Ormond Beach, FL on Division Ave.

On checking farther - in 2003 Grassroots Motorsports had announced a merger with Classic Autosport Magazine ( a British Publication)... by the Aug. 2003 Issue the name was changed to Classic Motorsport Magazine. (even if your subscription was originally to Classic Autosport Magazine)

In Nov. of 2003 Tim anounced that the subscription renewal rates from Classic Autosport were high, so the British readers must have like the changes being made

At any rate I must be confused at to what actually transpired between Grass Roots Motorsports and Classic Autosport.... I had the impression that Classic Autosports had bought-out Grass Roots Motorsports so they would have distribution and printing here in the US... but it looks like it might have been the other way around....???

By-the-way, I still have my first issue of AUTO-X magazine...

Nothing stays the same...

Carl B.

[montoya_fan01]

Alan:

No harm at all. I didn't say or mean that I felt there was any harm.

All I said, was that "I" didn't want to debate. By that I meant that I wasn't disputing your statement, AND that "debate" of this subject wasn't MY cup o tea. If you or anyone desires to debate, play on.

As for the statement from the magazine: ".....Nissan beats Porsche at their own game." Porsche has dominated much of the sportscar/endurance racing scene for YEARS. I don't think anyone was saying that Nissan NEVER beat them. That's JMO

I do suspect that you are correct in that the person who wrote that may not have known about Nissans previous success against them, but irregardless, Porsche has has been a fairly consistant powerhouse in sportscar / endurance racing and successful (more often) than most other makes. Also, I don't see how anyone can deny that Porsche is (and has been) the benchmark by which most manufacturers measure themselves against. No manufacturer races to come in 2nd!

PS, thanks for the info that you posted. Oh, btw, anytime someone bests porsche it is significant IMO.

[montoya_fan01]

nevermind, i got it .

[26th-Z]

With regards to the 300zx GTP car...if my memory is correct, that car won every race it entered save the enduros for a whole season. Trivia...does anyone know the serial number of that winning chassis?

I think this is the car you are talking about. It's a GTS car, not a GTP. This is the Cunningham car that won the Daytona 24 in 1994, chassis number 005.

[26th-Z]

maybe my memory is faulty but IIRC the 1988 Nissan GTP-ZXt beat Porche for the IMSA GTP season-long champoinship.

...

Inquiring minds want to know.

Nissan lost the champoinship to Porsche in the last race at ?Del Mar I think, in 1988. There is a "premature" commemorative pin for the Nissan IMSA champoinship in 1988, but they didn't win. Nissan won the IMSA GTP championship in 1989 and 1990.

[SteveJ]

HI Ron (everyone)

I don't know why - but I was thinking that Classic Motorsport Magazine was a British Publication, which had either merged with or bought-out Grass Roots Motorsports here in the US. Does the publication information in the front of the magazine show it being an American Publication now?

FWIW,

Carl B.

Carl,

GRM started Classic Motorsport Magazine so they could concentrate the focus of both publications. GRM was going to focus on "newer" cars (less than 15 years old IIRC) while Classic Motorsport was intended to focus on older cars. I haven't purchased GRM since the split, so I don't know if the division still stands.

[EricB]

Any top 10 HAS to have IronMask IMO

call me crazy but that car has to feature...

-e

PS: Wasn't the most potent production R30 called the GTS-R?

What's with the "GT-R" on the hood? Does that reference a sponsor or is this the first "modern" incarnation of the GT-R nameplate since the KPGC10/C110 days?

[HS30-H]

What's with the "GT-R" on the hood? Does that reference a sponsor or is this the first "modern" incarnation of the GT-R nameplate since the KPGC10/C110 days?

Eric,

In full, it says "GT-R WORKS" - which was indeed a sponsors name. They were a Skyline specialist garage / part supplier.

And I agree with you about the 'Tekka-men' Tomica / Hasemi Super Silhouette Skyline, although its predecessor the 'Gr.C Skyline' was perhaps even more extreme.

[The C110]

Does anyone have pictures of this most beastly creation - ive always thought the tomica r30 was the meanest race skyline id ever seen - but something meaner exists?

[EricB]

grp c skyline ('84~5)

-e

[EricB]

Invariably I always seem to hear people can't find good pics of IronMask online, so I thought I'd share the better ones I have come across over the years... enjoy the beast!!!

-e