Top 10 Japanese race cars of all time As per Classic Motorsport

[EricB]

more R30 pics for the fans

[Alfadog]

I agree with that sentiment Eric. I would add the Calsonic R32 aswell, and and and.... so many more. Thanks so much for the pictures too.

Can anyone shed more light on the "1968 Toyota 2000 GT Carol Shelby race team, focus from Fords to Toyotas in the 60's" I know little of this, basically only that they existed! Did they ever win?

[The C110]

Thankyou eric, the pictures are fantastic . Interestingly, it appears that there were two versions of the tomica r30 - the masked and unmasked versions - earlier and later i assume? Oh, and does anyone know the dimensions of the rear boots? The most beefy ive ever come across! Im guessing at least 13 inches wide - What tyre size would that equate to!?!

Tom

[HS30-H]

Does anyone have pictures of this most beastly creation - ive always thought the tomica r30 was the meanest race skyline id ever seen - but something meaner exists?

Here are some pics of the car I was talking about.

Note that this is not the same car as the one in Eric's pictures; it was longer, lower and wider.

Apologies for the picture quality ( especially page breaks ) but photos of this car are not all that easy to find........

[Victor Laury]

Alan, you told me that the earlier car was powered by an L/Z hybrid turbo motor, I have seen other references that have confirmed that. How about this one? the same, or did it have the FJ20DET? Lower and Wider... I'll say!

[HS30-H]

Hi Victor,

Yes - as far as the data I have is concerned - the 'Group C' version of the Skyline Super Silhouette ( the longer, lower, wider version than the one that still exists ) also used the big single-turbo version of the LZ20. They claimed 570ps output.

There was a weird N/A 'FJ23' hybrid engine that was used in the first of the rear-engined Nissan Group C machines, and I was once told that this engine was tested in the earlier Super Silhouette car - but I don't see any written evidence of this.

I believe the longer, lower, wider version either got banned or withdrawn because it was judged to be outside the regulations of the series. I think it was to do with keeping the dimensions of the original base model, and particularly in the cabin area - but again I don't know too much about the ins-and-outs of it all. I suspect the lack of documentary evidence might point to a bit of 'brush it under the carpet' type activity.......

[HS30-H]

Can anyone shed more light on the "1968 Toyota 2000 GT Carol Shelby race team, focus from Fords to Toyotas in the 60's" I know little of this, basically only that they existed! Did they ever win?

Lachlan,

I believe they did indeed win a few races, but came fourth overall in the 1968 championship.

One of the cars that Toyota sent to Shelby was their record-breaking car. I notice the "Top 10" list doesn't include any of the high speed and endurance record-breaking activities of Toyota, Nissan and Prince - even though they were World records for their class.

It probably needs to be a 'Top 50' to do the subject justice I'd have thought.

[EricB]

Holy crap Alan!!!!!!

I guess I was confused all along!... In the 10 pics I posted, one of them is different from the rest (front view with big side fireball, white "11" on red hood), it's got a grille whereas the others have a body colored plate between the headlights. The "grilled" R30 has big cooling chimney vents on the hood that the other car does not. Is this the first iteration of the Super Silhouette and the other pics are of the second iteration or vice versa?

I know the SSR30 has been driven on occasion by a very emotional Hasemi at Nismo Festival... but what about the Gr.C car? Does it still exist? Does it make appearances? Is it in a museum or stuffed away in the warehouse underneath a plastic tarp? Did it only do Gr.C within Japan or did it travel internationally?

Thanks Alan,

-e

PS: How does the white/blue GrC Skyline I posted a picture of above relate to the R30 one... The white/blue car looks more recent in that it looks to be inspired by the 956/962 & TS010 in certain ways...

PPS: In the BestMotoring "Racing Skyline" video which is vol56 as I recall, they mention that Iron Mask was wearing 16" front rims and 19" rear rims!!

I forget the widths though...

-e

[HS30-H]

Is this the first iteration of the Super Silhouette and the other pics are of the second iteration or vice versa?

Hi Eric,

Yes - the longer, lower, wider car was the earlier of the two. As I mentioned above, either the rules changed - or somebody protested - and the earlier car was no longer legal. They built the shorter, slightly higher and slightly less wide car to replace it.

I know the SSR30 has been driven on occasion by a very emotional Hasemi at Nismo Festival... but what about the Gr.C car? Does it still exist? Does it make appearances? Is it in a museum or stuffed away in the warehouse underneath a plastic tarp? Did it only do Gr.C within Japan or did it travel internationally?

I don't believe that it survived. I would have thought it would have surfaced by now if it had. It probably got recycled and many of the parts used on the one that we often see today.

However, who knows what's lurking in a shipping container tucked behind a storage warehouse somewhere? Some interesting cars are still surfacing over there......

How does the white/blue GrC Skyline I posted a picture of above relate to the R30 one... The white/blue car looks more recent in that it looks to be inspired by the 956/962 & TS010 in certain ways...

Well, I think we might think of the first Super Silhouette car ( the longer, lower, wider one ) as a kind of fork in the road. It was racing against 'proper' Group C machines that had mid-engine layout and tubbed chassis - whilst the Skyline was still front-engined and with a spaceframe chassis. It didn't really stand much of a chance against that kind of competition.

So you can see what they did: The next Super Silhouette series Skyline ( along with the Bluebird and Silvia versions ) was built around a genuine factory body shape - these rules being more strictly enforced - whilst Nissan went mid-engine and tubbed chassis for their 'proper' Group C machine.

Here's a pic of the 'Skyline Turbo C' Group C car ( actually a March 85G ) from the 1985 Suzuka 1000km race:

[EricB]

ha...

the man with 1000 answers...

thanks alan

[26th-Z]

Wait a minute... Wasn't the Super Silhouette a seperate class from Group C?

Of the three March 85G chassis purchased by Nissan (08, 09, and 10), two of them were equipped with the new V6 and one was equipped with the LZ20 engine? I don't see how you are making the comparison. By engine? Are you including Group A and B? There is nothing Super Silhouette about that March chassis, Alan, and nothing Group C about the SSR30 chassis.

(Edit) Ok, I see where you are going with this. Never mind my comments.

Eric, If I had to answer your question about the picture of the model car you posted, I would say the car is a March with a Nissan engine and big bold SKYLINE written all over it so that you would know what race team it is. These were the days when Nissan was developing their own chassis and "borrowing" from the technology of experienced car builders.

[HS30-H]

Wait a minute... Wasn't the Super Silhouette a seperate class from Group C?

Yes.

But Nissan called that first ( longer, lower, wider ) DR30 lookey-likey a 'Skyline Group C' and entered it in Group C races. The second car ( shorter, higher, narrower ) was a true 'Super Silhouette' class car, entered in Super Silhouette series races. Two different cars.

There is nothing Super Silhouette about that March chassis, Alan, and nothing Group C about the SSR30 chassis.

Not guilty! I never said there was. Nissan made the race entries - not me. Look at the captions on the pictures. I wouldn't have mentioned the March Group C cars - but Eric associated the Tomica model with the Super Silhouette Skyline. I'm trying to differentiate between them and clarify the distinctions - not the reverse.

Let's not get mixed up here. What we have is a Super Silhouette car based on the vestiges of a factory DR30 bodyshell, a Group C March 'Skyline Turbo C' with a non-Skyline Nissan engine, and something in between the two: the "Group C Skyline Turbo".

Eric, If I had to answer your question about the picture of the model car you posted, I would say the car is a March with a Nissan engine and big bold SKYLINE written all over it so that you would know what race team it is.

Exactly. There was nothing 'Skyline' about it. Neither was there anything Silvia about the 'Silvia Turbo C' or anything Fairlady about the 'Fairlady Z-C LM03'. All were out-and-out Group C cars with the names of current Nissan models attached to them. It was just product association.

These were the days when Nissan was developing their own chassis and "borrowing" from the technology of experienced car builders.

Kind of like most major manufacturers did - and still do. Cite Ford with the Ford GT cribbing the Lola GT back in the Sixties, or Aston Martin ( AKA Ford ) asking Prodrive to design, build and run their DBR9 race car in 2005.