#913 On Ebay

[lonetreesteve]

With just 2 1/2 days left and it's only at a lousy $162.50 at the time of this posting. Surely, someone wants to buy a sub-1000 240Z. If it wasn't so far away, I would consider buying it and putting it in storage until my other 2 are complete. You just don't see 240Zs with VINs this low for sale very often.

[onuthin]

With just 2 1/2 days left and it's only at a lousy $162.50 at the time of this posting. Surely, someone wants to buy a sub-1000 240Z. [/quote I couldn't watch it anymore.I have ran it up and down the tree since it first came out and what the hell I only have seven whats one more between friends? :) And if nothing else Sam gets another road trip.I am going to sell off some of the others since I can't restore them all. My 73 will be going first if anybody is interested.

[hls30.com]

Congrats!

Will

[lonetreesteve]

Cool!! Be sure to keep us updated on the car and post some pics once you get the car home. Congratulations!

[26th-Z]

Yahoooo! Kudos to you for rescuing the babe. Welcome to the low VIN club and hope to see you at the Mitty.

[v12horse]

I was talking to a fellow Z collector about a $60,000 pristine Fairlady 432 and we both agreed that the price was not all that bad. In context, the value of the collectable Z car is still relatively economical.

I am very curious about this Z432 that you speak of Chris. Is this car in the states? I have heard of one Z432 in the states, possibly in Texas, but from what I have heard it is in the process of a restoration. Is there another? Please tell. I was looking through last month's Nostalgic Hero the other day and noticed a Z432-R selling for 10,000,000 Yen. For how few they made that is cheap compared to a 2.7RS or some of these muscle cars selling at auction these days.

I too agree that the Zcar is a bargain no matter what condition. Even if a #1 car sold for 50k, that is a bargain compared to #1 Porsches, Ferrari's, and the list goes on. I cannot believe how much money muscle cars are going for these days. It seems like the whole collector car market is booming because cars are going up in value in almost every sector. It is good for the people who own these cars, and bad for the ones who don't. I wonder if 260z's and 280z's will ever get the respect they deserve. I have seen 260z's in primo shape go for pennies compared to 240's. Even 280z's go for more than 260's. What gives? I guess this is another subject entirely.

Here is a funny story. I was going to the lab late at night a few weeks ago and I ran into one of my proffessor's in the parking lot. He knew a little bit about Zcars, and he urged me to never get rid of it and make sure that I take excellent care of it because it is going to be worth a lot of money someday. Don't worry Dr. B. I just thought I would share that.

-Ben:)

[26th-Z]

No, Ben. The car is in Japan. A couple of guys you know went to Japan last fall, attended some car shows, talked to some Japanese Z people we know of and relayed the situation to me as though I was going to buy it!

Chris

[Carl Beck]

Carl / 26th:

What / where can I find the decription for the number system? the 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 etc.

Keep in mind that all the terms used - are in the sense of a "Collector"... they veiw things far more critically than most of us..

#1 EXCELLENT - Restored to current maximum professional standards of

quality in every area, or perfect original with components operating

and appearing as new. A 95+ point show car that is not driven.

In national show judging a car in #1 condition is likely to win top

honors in it's class. In a sense it has ceased to be an automobile

and has become an object of art. It is transported to shows in an

enclosed trailer, and, when not being shown it is stored in a climate

controlled facility. It is not driven. There are very few #1 cars.

#2 FINE: - Well-restored, or a combination of superior restoration

and excellent original. Also an extremely well maintained original

showing very minimal wear.

Except for the very closest of inspection a #2 vehicle may appear as

a #1. The #2 vehicle will take the top award in many judged shows,

except when squared off against a #1 example in its own class. It

may also be driven 800 - 1,000 miles each year to shows, on tours,

and simply for pleasure.

#3 - Very Good: Completely operable original or "older restoration" showing

wear. Also, a good amateur restoration, all presentable and serviceable

inside and out. Plus combinations of well-done restoration and good

operable components; or a partially restored car with all parts necessary

to complete it and/or valuable NOS parts.

This is a 20 footer - that is, from 20 feet away it may look perfect. But

as we approach it, we begin to notice that the paint may be getting a

little thin in spots from frequent washing and polishing. Looking inside

we might detect some wear on the drivers seat, foot pedals, and carpet.

The chrome trim while still quite presentable, may have lost the sharp

mirror like reflective quality it had when new. All systems and equipment

on the car are in good operating order. In general, most of the vehicles

seen at car shows are #3's.....

#4 Good - A driveable vehicle needing no or only minor work to be

functional. Also, a deteriorated restoration or a very poor amateur

restoration. All components may need restoration to be excellent, the car

is mostly usable "as is".

This is a driver - It may be in the process of restoration or it owner may

have big plans, but even from 20 feet away, there is no doubt that it needs

a lot of help..

#5 Restorable - Needs complete restoration of body, chassis, and interior.

May or may not be running, but isn't weathered, wrecked, and/or stripped to

the point of being useful only for parts.

This car needs everything. It may not be operable, but it is essentially

all there and has only minor surface rust, if any rust at all. While

presenting a real challenge to the restorer, it won;t have him doing a lot

of chasing for missing parts.

#6 Parts Car - May or may not be running, but is weathered, wrecked, and/or

stripped to the point of being useful primarily for parts.

FWIW,

Carl B.

Carl Beck

Clearwater, FL USA

http://ZHome.com

[Arne]

I bought my car as a 5, hope to be at 4 by the end of the summer. My goal is a 2.5 or so. Better than a 3 but driven too much to be a 2.

[26th-Z]

Hey Carl!

Is your numbering system a recognized published value system that you can point to as reference, or is that the "Carl Beck" numbering system? I am not intending to sound rash or arguementative by any means, but I don't necessarilly agree with the detail of your descriptions. I don't think number one cars are all that rare. I think plenty of them are driven and I would say a 90 point car would qualify. Also, a 90 point car does NOT necessarily mean bone stock and in that respect, the point / value system currently in practice by the ZCCA is far more restrictive in the stock classes than any other.

Good case in point: Charlie Osborne drove his stock entry to Syracuse last year, washed it, won a Gold Medallion, and drove it home. No question in my mind, it is / was a number 1 car. One of our active ClassicZ club members showed up in Syracuse with his wonderfully restored Z, took top honors in his modified class, qualified for the Gold round of judging, and then drove his car at Watkins Glen the next day. The Gold Cup modified 240Z from last year was driven. Another interesting thing that happend last year was that the cars scored higher indoors under artificial light than they did outdoors in bright sunlight.

You have offered a valuable benchmark for everyone's reference, but I would like to respectfully dilute the description, just a bit. Real-world judging, either ZCCA or AACA, is not that definative and highly subjective. It is also a "snapshot" in time and place.

Finally, with all due respect, you forgot to mention the #10 category. This is highly subjective, but a 10 car is one that just leaves the viewer awe struck from 6 meters. My proud example of a 10 car is the honorable Princess 27th!

Chris

[hls30.com]

Chris,

"I am not intending to sound rash or arguementative by any means, but I don't necessarilly agree with the detail of your description", but Princess 27 was a 20 the moment I saw her in an ebay picture from across the room-I was dumbfounded, not simply awestruck! After a spa visit, and removal of the crack pipe, she is absolutely a 10-as long as the NOS parts that came with her are left in plain view in the hatch! You will get more "points" with before and after photos...

Will

[Carl Beck]

Hey Carl!

Is your numbering system a recognized published value system that you can point to as reference, or is that the "Carl Beck" numbering system? I am not intending to sound rash or arguementative by any means, but I don't necessarilly agree with the detail of your descriptions. I don't think number one cars are all that rare. I think plenty of them are driven and I would say a 90 point car would qualify. Also, a 90 point car does NOT necessarily mean bone stock and in that respect, the point / value system currently in practice by the ZCCA is far more restrictive in the stock classes than any other

Chris

HI Chris:

Sorry - I was on the thought process of "Collectors" again.. The Numbering System and its descriptions are those used in the Kruse, "Old Cars Price Guide"; and in Collector circles they are the most commonly used in the initial discussions between buyers and sellers. Of course sellers always rate their cars higher than buyers.. ;-) Nonetheless, they are at least a "common" definition that both can look too.

The NADA Cars of Particular Interest (aka CPI) Value Guide breaks the market into "Low", "High" and "Average" value's. Their use is defined thus:

"CPI does not assign condition categories to the column headings because values generally move in small increments and there are seldom well defined points which indicate condition. In a general sense the LOW value represents an average intact and functioning automobile which can be restored at a reasonable cost. The AVERAGE value is indicative of a clean, front-line ready automobile. The HIGH value is representive of a car which requires nothing. It may be a show car but it in NOT a 100 point car. There are some cars in CPI which are rarely if ever driven, but most cars are assumed to be driven."

FWIW,

Carl B.

Clearwater, FL USA

http://ZHome.com