280 Zed in Australia

[Zedrally]

Thanks Carl,

I wasn't thinking of Left or Right, just the capacity.

I can't read the attachment clearly, I think the first capacity shown is Engine displacement of 2305, is that correct?

MikeN

[Carl Beck]

Thanks Carl,

I wasn't thinking of Left or Right, just the capacity.

I can't read the attachment clearly, I think the first capacity shown is Engine displacement of 2305, is that correct?

MikeN

Hi Mike:

Oh.. sorry - when you said no "Right Hand Drives"...

No - 2305 is the wheel base (90.74 inches). That first page is mostly about the standard body . Page 5 lists 2394cc as the engine capacity.

Here is the first page for the change to the 260Z... and page 2 of that submission shows 2583 cm3 (157.62)

I believe that the FIA Homologates cars for world wide competition in any FIA sanctioned events - so the only thing that matters is who produced the car, how many were produced and in what standard production configurations - does not matter to the FIA where the cars were sold..

Sorry for the poor reproduction - the original documents were photo-copied in the early 70's and at that time they were using a heat fused ink.. which has now caused all the pages to "yellow/brown" badly.. I scanned them - then used Photoshop to attempt to clean them up ... for the most part they are readable in higher resolutions.. but we have image size limits here on the Web Forum.

FWIW,

Carl B.

[Zedrally]

Thanks Carl,

My thoughts on the matter go as such.

As the 280Z was only produced for the US market, it would not have needed to have been homologated by the FIA, as the FIA has no jurisdiction is the US.

Any homologation [if thats the correct terminology that is used in the US] by the US counterpart would only be valid for races/events sactioned by that body.

I believe capacity does affect homologation, which would only allow the original H(L)S-30 models and of course the RS series. I'm probably really out of my depth here now and need to seek advice from more knowledgable people on this.

Radar on Alan T? Do you have any in-sight?

Thanks for all you input.

Mike N

[Carl Beck]

Thanks Carl,

My thoughts on the matter go as such.

As the 280Z was only produced for the US market, it would not have needed to have been homologated by the FIA, as the FIA has no jurisdiction is the US.

Hi Mike:

If Nissan wanted to run the 2.8L engine, anywhere in the world, or allow private teams to do so, they would have had to modify their FIA submissions to include the L28. BTW - The United States Grand Prix is an FIA event here in the US, as is the United States Rally Championships. Many U.S. Manufacturers have their models F.I.A. homologated for competition around the world. (LeMans comes to mind - Viper, Corvette etc.). So the F.I.A. does in its own events have jurisdiction here.

Any homologation [if thats the correct terminology that is used in the US] by the US counterpart would only be valid for races/events sactioned by that body.

True - International Motor Sports Association (IMSA) and the Sports Car Club of America (SCCA) do have their own set of rules. As does the National Association for Stock Car Racing (NASCAR). But they aren't the only sanctioning bodies here - the F.I.A is also one.

I believe capacity does affect homologation, which would only allow the original H(L)S-30 models and of course the RS series.

Engine capacity might affect what class the car ran in. Getting the L28 homologated only means Nissan has filed the proper paperwork with the F.I.A to define the item and certified it as a regular production item - so it meets the F.I.A. requirements for the classes for which it is allowed to compete.

I'm probably really out of my depth here now and need to seek advice from more knowledgable people on this.

Radar on Alan T? Do you have any in-sight?

That's true for both of us -

regards,

Carl B.

[boyblunda]

I would imagine that during the 70's there would have been an FIA presence in North America given that, in two separate years, rounds of the World Rally Championship were held in, I think, the USA and possibly Canada.

From memory, the years were 1973 and 1974 which were possibly pre 280Z. I think North America had a quick fling with the FIA at the time but later resolved to go their own way due to difficulties associated with compliance. I am sure that a North American would be able to provide much more accurate detail than some dude in an armchair on a point close to the opposite side of the world.

[HS30-H]

I believe capacity does affect homologation, which would only allow the original H(L)S-30 models and of course the RS series. I'm probably really out of my depth here now and need to seek advice from more knowledgable people on this.

Radar on Alan T? Do you have any in-sight?

I remember we discussed this point here on the forum at least once in the dim and distant past. I can't remember the thread though.

In 1973, Nissan were already using FIA-sanctioned and homologated parts that took capacities up to 2868cc ( 2870cc in practice ) for the Group 5 class - so the question of capacity on its own is not the sole issue.

With regard to the 'L28' engine itself, Nissan homologated this in April 1975 with an amendment to the original homologation ( JAF no. GT-010V-23, FIA no. 3023 19/17V ) which also brought in the stock fuel injection system and related equipment:

QUOTE:

"Applicable to H(L)S30 and R(L)S30 model series.

Another type of electronical controlled gasoline injection 2800 cm3 engine can be selected for H(L)S30 and R(L)S30 cars as maker's option.

Serial Number for production car will be start from No. H(L)S30-270001 for chassis and No. L28-000001 for engine."

I don't know about elsewhere in the world, but here in the UK most of the historic rally Z cars nowadays use a capacity of over 2800cc in the '240Z' and '260Z' for events run to the RAC MSA rules. But when they want to compete in events with strictly-enforced FIA regulations, they are forced to use 2400cc base capacity.

Generally speaking, the rules and regulations of the local ( organising ) body of the event in question are the ones that you have to conform to. Here in the UK, that often means that modifications have to conform to known 'in-period' precedents, or what can be proved to have been used in-period. Its a case of 'Prove It - Or Don't Use It'.

Alan T.

[Zedrally]

Thank you all for the replies,

The more I read the more confused I get, such a subject tends to get rather murky and some statments could be taken in different ways.

Such as the quote from the homologation above.

I could read it as the 280Z was only valid for chassis numbers starting from 270001. Therefore any chassis earlier than that could not be regarded as a 280Z.

I won't even bother trying to get my head around the differnt numbers used for HLS & HS production.....

Here in Oz, the rules appear to be similar as the UK, if you want to be strictly Historic, then it's either the L24 or L26 engine, with SU's.

There has been a push towards re-establishing Group 5 in a Classic Car Category, however events have been rather thin on the ground.

MOM

[aarc240]

The HLS30 280Z as marketed in USA is a 260Z shell with an L28E engine, the S130 of all stripes is what we call a 280ZX. While working on a co-located base I got to see both the 280Z and the 280ZX in two seater LHD and thre is very little in common between them.

Yes there are HLS30 280Z's in Australia, at least two that didn't go back to USA from military personnel at Pine Gap (Alice Springs, Northern Territory) and one from Nurrungar (Woomera, South Australia). One of the NT cars wound up in Victoria, Steve Gee had it at one stage I believe, the other stayed in NT until a friend and I ratted the rusty hulk for the few things left usable, the one in SA went to Canberra and AFAIK is still there in LHD.

Interesting that the rusty hulk (early '76 HLS30) didn't have the big ugly bumpers so your guess is as good as anyones where that was supposed to be marketed!

This DOES NOT mean that is all that got here, just that these were ones I was personally aware of and physically sighted!

Yes the S130 is a 280ZX anywhere but Japan where it is a Fairlady 280Z.

One of these (a HS130J) also got here with an American serviceman who had bought it new when stationed in mainland Japan. AFAIR that went on to USA and yes it was RHD!

[aarc240]

Kept this totally seperate so as not to confuse TOO much.

So far CAMS (the FIA recognised sanctioning body) is heading down the path of old. It appears that the intention is to freeze the Historic and Tarmac world to what it was in 1973/74. That way the main interested parties within CAMS can go on running their $200k replica Porsches without risk of being beaten by any plebian types in their modified Japanese cars.

A very different story to New Zealand.

MOM, I for one would love to see Group 5 cars accepted. It would then be feasible to finish building our 240z where at this time we have abandoned the project as a waste of time and money. Very annoying that we can't even run the triple Mikuni carbs and manifold I still own which came from a works rally 240z back in 1973!

[Zedrally]

Hi aarc240,

Glad to read your input on the 280Z, at least we are getting some interesting reading in this thread about LHD 280's here.

Yes, it is a shame that we don't follow the NZ model here. There have been some fantastic rally over there and plenty of action planned in the future.

You haven't indicated in which state your residing? So I'm not sure what you could do as far as completing your Gp. 5 replica. Love to hear more about it, perhaps in a seperate thread.

Cheers

MikeN

[260DET]

Kept this totally seperate so as not to confuse TOO much.

So far CAMS (the FIA recognised sanctioning body) is heading down the path of old. It appears that the intention is to freeze the Historic and Tarmac world to what it was in 1973/74. That way the main interested parties within CAMS can go on running their $200k replica Porsches without risk of being beaten by any plebian types in their modified Japanese cars.

A very different story to New Zealand.

..................

Agree about the 'gentlemans' Porsche club influence, money talks no doubt. However for whatever reason the tarmac targa type events are being opened up so that Japanese cars may be more competitive, the Porsche favouritism has perhaps become too obvious. For example, a friend of mine is checking out the eligibility of a turbo manual 280ZX coupe and has had a positive response.

But one of the problems is that few people will spend the money on their Japanese cars and make the effort that Porsche owners do. Whatever you think of Porsches and some of their owners, they are prepared to do whatever it takes to be competitive.

[Zedrally]

I haven't had a chance to read & digest these...

http://www.cams.com.au/downloads/articles/Tarmac%20Rally%20regulations%202006.pdf

They may answer the problem?