Tokico HP - Z is two inches taller

[Marty Rogan]

So Marty, whcih springs are on the track car? I was thinking of getting Suspension Techniquies and the Tockico HP's but I dont want my car to ride higher! I will go with illuminas if thats the case. I hope they are matched to ST springs.

I got the MSA springs. I believe they were rated something like 129 Front and 182 in the rear. The car has a 1" bar in the front and I think a 5/8" bar in the back (maybe 3/4", I don't remeber exactly). I am very happy with the handling of this set up.

I would ABSOLUTELY go with the Illuminas. They are a little more expensive, but they give you a whole lot more choices in set up. Besides, how often do you really buy shocks?

Marty

[Arne]

Arne' date=' When I put on my KYBs a month ago it raised the ride height of the car1/2" all around. I measured very carefully before and after installation. I feel the old Konis had sagged that much. As I stated before the ride is MUCH better: smooth, yet firm, yet not kidney busting. fwiw. Cheers, Mike[/quote']What springs are you using, Mike? Stock?

[Carl Beck]

Hi Guys:

I purchased a NOS set of the Euro Spec. Stage I springs, then sent them to a spring manufacturer we had worked with on the reproduction of the OEM US Spec. springs for the 240-Z's. The manufacturer reproduced them for us, and with the help of Courtesy Nissan we sat up a Group Buy and had about 40 sets of the Euro Spec. Stage I springs reproduced.

A few of the guys that installed them, along with new shocks had reported that their cars were sitting between 1 and 2 inches higher as a result.

To assure that the reproduction springs were in fact made to spec. I took them to a local race shop that had the equipment necessary to measure the spring rates of the OEM and reproduction springs. They measured out as near perfect reproductions - exactly the same as the NOS Set of Nissan Springs.

While taking to the guys at the race shop - they told me that they also measure the action of the shocks they install.... They said that it was very common to have quality aftermarket Gas Pressure Shocks show rod pressures of 100 lbs or more, and many of the high performance racing type shocks measured out between 200 and 300 lbs!! (these are NASCAR type cars)...

The weight at the corners of the typical 240-Z in the neighborhood of 600lbs... the Euro Spec. Springs have a rate of 102lb's front and 112lbs rear as I recall.... so if the rod pressure on the gas pressure shocks is lifting/holding 100 lbs... it's easy to see how your Z is going to sit at least an inch higher...

This is not what most of our buyers wanted - so it looks like they will have to cut a inch or so off the springs, if they combine them with newer Gas Pressure shocks. Also interesting to hear that the Illuminas don't have that effect Marty .... perhaps we'll have to recommend them with the Euro Spec. Springs... or the older non-gas pressure type shocks if they can be found.

BTW - measured from the garage floor - to the bottom of the rocker panel, at the front and rear jacking points - a stock 240-Z sits about 7 3/4 to 8 inches high (the 73's actually sit a bit higher than the earlier cars do to the headlight height standards and bumper height standards for that year). Bottom of the rocker panel - means just that - NOT to the pinch weld that sticks down farther...

FWIW,

Carl B.

Carl Beck

Clearwater, FL USA

http://ZHome.com

[jmortensen]

The Illuminas do have the same effect. I haven't measured the amount of pressure they have, but the pressure is there for the same reason as the non-adjustable Tokico so it's a fairly safe bet to assume that they are in the same ballpark.

ANY strut that is gas charged will raise the car when compared to a strut that isn't gas charged.

[dhoneycutt]

I put the Tokico HP Blues and Tokico springs on my 240 and it lowered it almost an inch from what was in there on the front. I had to replace my rear strut tubes because the PO had put on later 260/280 strut tubes and I had the "rallye look" on the back end. Once those were replaced the car sat what appears to be level only 1 inch lower. FWIW

[deadflo]

So the higher the spring rate the more likelyhood your car will sit higher? In other words the more performance oriented springs , the higher it could sit? I guess the tradeoff would be your car should handle better even if it sits a bit higher? I know my car has "old" lowering springs (yellow ones, could be interpart) but they have probably sagged quite a bit. It does sit real low.

Bu the struts are shot as well.

So I guess if I get a new strut spring combo, my handling should improve regardless.

Hi Guys:

The weight at the corners of the typical 240-Z in the neighborhood of 600lbs... the Euro Spec. Springs have a rate of 102lb's front and 112lbs rear as I recall.... so if the rod pressure on the gas pressure shocks is lifting/holding 100 lbs... it's easy to see how your Z is going to sit at least an inch higher...

FWIW,

Carl B.

Carl Beck

Clearwater, FL USA

http://ZHome.com

[ZSaint]

I have a set of Tokico Illuminas on my '71. It is lowered 1". I have not experienced the lifting of the car with the gas-filled shocks.

[deadflo]

Z sait, so what type of springs are you running??

[Arne]

I have a set of Tokico Illuminas on my '71. It is lowered 1". I have not experienced the lifting of the car with the gas-filled shocks.

I'm not surprised that those of you with modern lowering springs haven't noticed this gas-strut effect. Those springs were likely designed after gas shocks became common, and so the spring rates have probably been adjusted to take that into account. So far the complaints have all (to my knowledge) come from people using factory springs - which had their spring rates determined assuming non-gas struts. So the only people who are really having this problem are those of us who would rather not lower our Zs. Unfortunately, instead we get to have them lifted!

[jmortensen]

OK, here's some pretty CONCRETE proof that the Illuminas do have some spring action to them. My car is on a rotisserie right now, and I've been working on the front swaybar. Here are some pics of the car as it happens to sit right this second:

The view from the garage door. You can see that the car is upside down, and the front suspension is on, but there are no front springs.

Another shot of the strut, you can see that it is partially extended, despite the fact that the weight of the strut, the hub, the rotor, control arm, sway bar, TC rod, and endlinks are all on top of the strut:

It's actually only about 1/2 way through the travel with all that weight on it, again, this means that the strut is LIFTING that weight. If you put a Koni or other non gas charged strut on there it would slowly settle to the bottomed position. The gas charge is what is working like a spring and holding this stuff up:

This is just a shot of my front swaybar setup I just got done with. I'm kinda proud of this one, so I figured I'd show it off. All rod ends. The swaybar is mounted to the frame on a rod end, and the endlinks are rod ends. Had to do it about 4 different ways to get the end links to stop binding. Now it's bind free and WAY less stiction than poly bushings...

[bpilati]

Carl Beck has been looking into this issue with the Euro struts that we recently had made and are sold through Courtesy. If you sits up real high you could put some wide Cragars under there with slicks.

[bpilati]

jmortensen, I hope you're watching that car. I'd hate to see a Z burn.